2 Thessalionians 2:11?

[AHappyAtheist]

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Explain this please? God is making us believe lies so we go to hell?

[scourge39]

Yes. That passage is sometimes used to support double predestination, which says that God not only proactively saves the righteous, but also proactively damns the wicked. Most Calvinists only believe that he proactively initiates salvation, but not damnation. I'm with Calvin who upheld double predestination. I don't see how you can affirm one side and deny the other. They go hand in hand. In theory, one could take a one-sided approach, but passages like that one indicate that God will take an active hand in their demise.

[AHappyAtheist]

Yes. That passage is sometimes used to support double predestination, which says that God not only proactively saves the righteous, but also proactively damns the wicked. Most Calvinists only believe that he proactively initiates salvation, but not damnation. I'm with Calvin who upheld double predestination. I don't see how you can affirm one side and deny the other. They go hand in hand. In theory, one could take a one-sided approach, but passages like that one indicate that God will take an active hand in their demise.

So... If i choose to be an atheist, there's nothing i can do, since god already hates me enough to send me misinformation to send me to hell?

That sucks.

[scourge39]

No. Think of it as his giving you more of what you already deem acceptable. He'll eventually put the coup de grace on all of his opponents, just like a good champion fighter or military general. In other words, he'll finish the work that was started by the individuals themselves who reject him. Rejection of the truth leaves a void that can only be filled by its counterpart deception.

[AHappyAtheist]

No. Think of it as his giving you more of what you already deem acceptable. He'll eventually put the coup de grace on all of his opponents, just like a good champion fighter or military general. In other words, he'll finish the work that was started by the individuals themselves who reject him. Rejection of the truth leaves a void that can only be filled by its counterpart deception.

So, assuming hes real, hes just encouraging me to not believe in him? He sounds very nice =)

[AHappyAtheist]

Also, is God the one making me have an insatiable appetite for babbys, under the age of 6 months? Any older an they start losing flavor.. getting bitter.. bleh...

All Atheists eat babbys just so you know.

Edit: In case you dont know what a babby is... watch this edjumacational video.(Safe for work, very humorous, based on a misspelled Yahoo Answers question)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll-lia-FEIY

[mcgyver]

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Explain this please? God is making us believe lies so we go to hell?

Good morning Happy! I see that you're back with us, and that's a good thing

You know, if you're going to quote scripture in order to be argumentative, you really ought to take a look to see what it's really saying to you instead of taking such out of context

So let me answer your question here by looking at some other scripture:

Romans 1:18-22:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools..."

And Romans 1:28:

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;"

Allow me to cut to the chase here...

At one time you knew that there was a God...at one time you knew that there was someone out there bigger than yourself...perhaps when you were a child...you may not have known that He was the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob...nevertheless you had an innate knowledge of God... Before you decided to use your "intellect" and "reasoning" to reject that seed of knowledge that God puts into every man.

Now you can howl, become angry and stamp your foot declaring "it isn't so"...BUT

If we were able to peel back the veneer; remove the layers like the bark of a tree, we'd find that within you was a "God shaped hole"...It's in every man and I've never known an atheist who lacked it.

That is the very thing that this passage addresses. because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them and they did not like to retain God in their knowledge sums it up. The knowledge was there...you just decided to get rid of it, harden yourself against it.

It is not God who has failed...You have hardened your heart against Him, and are not willing (for whatever reason) to acknowledge Him as God nor to embrace His salvation...and that my friend, is why you are on the way to Hell.

Let me give you an illustration:

Say that you've committed some heinous crime and are sitting on death row. The appeals are exhausted, the lawyers are long gone, and each day brings you one day closer to the appointment with the executioner.

One day you're sitting there when out of nowhere the governor of the state walks into your cell...and he's holding a pardon in his hand, which he offers to you.

But you're bitter, you see...you feel you're innocent...that the system failed...you're so angry and hardened that you tell the governor to "take his pardon and get out". The next day they take you out and execute you.

Tell me, who's fault is it?

Does this sound silly to you? This is exactly where you are...You are being given a lot of opportunities...Might think hard about wasting them

[Puritan]

Remember, it is not him who wills, nor is it him who runs, but it is God that shows mercy. God hardens whom He wills and He mercies whom He will. As long as there is a Romans 9, this hated truth stands.

[watchinginawe]

2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Explain this please? God is making us believe lies so we go to hell?

You will have to study a little more to see what "cause" is referenced above and when this will be.

God Bless!

[ServantofTruth]

Niether my faith in Jesus Christ or God's Word/ Wisdom in the bible is to be debated or mocked. My brothers and sisters have more patience than i do.

Perhaps another few verses will help you?

Mark's gospel chapter 7: verses 24-30. Focus on verse 29. This is a woman, also she is not a Jew. God's gifts are equally for everyone. Man/ Woman, Jew/ Gentile, White/ Black and everyother human invented opposite that God doesn't see.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 - I believe you are an inteligent person. Read the whole of the chapter and your answer is there, in plain English.

Although you will gain more from the bible if you submit and recieve the Holy Spirit to guide you, most of it is written very simply and the answers are all within the Word of God/ bible itself.

AHappyAtheist - would have better ways to spend their time, than on a Christian site. Promoting your views and ideas is not allowed in this forum/ on this site. As i told you before, and i believe the moderators are being extremely patient to give you time to decide how to proceed, this forum is for genuine seekers to recieve answers and advice to barriers to finding Jesus Christ.

Please make a decision. To genuinely seek Jesus Christ and there will be so many of us, rushing to help and pray, encourage ....well whatever you need. Love is the key.



Love God/ People
SofTy.