all the angels stood...and another angel came

[vinsight4u8]

Huh? What? If all angels are before the throne, then how can another show up there?

Rev. 7:11
"And all the angels stood before the throne..."
Rev. 8:3
"And another angel came..."

See anything wrong with trying to make Revelation events flow as written for this section?

Rev. 7
all angels
Rev. 8
the seven angels stood
and another angel came

Rev. 8:2-3 needs placed before Rev. 7:11

The trumpets will never sound after the 6th seal.
But the once had trumpet angels will get their story written down by John after the 7th seal is opened.

[vinsight4u8]

So when did the trumpets go blaring?
Look at the end of chapter 15.

For chapter 15 is where John first saw that angel group of seven...and we know that for sure because...

John writes that group as this way in the first verse.
Rev. 15:1
seven angels

Forever after this point - they are to be "the seven angels"
As in the not seen for the first time set of angels.

[bennie]

Huh? What? If all angels are before the throne, then how can another show up there?

Rev. 7:11
"And all the angels stood before the throne..."
Rev. 8:3
"And another angel came..."

See anything wrong with trying to make Revelation events flow as written for this section?

Rev. 7
all angels
Rev. 8
the seven angels stood
and another angel came

Rev. 8:2-3 needs placed before Rev. 7:11

The trumpets will never sound after the 6th seal.
But the once had trumpet angels will get their story written down by John after the 7th seal is opened.

hi

"The trumpets will never sound after the 6th seal."

maybe the trumpets will sound after the 4th seal?? or better yet, maybe they are the 4th seal

bennie

[vinsight4u8]

hi

"The trumpets will never sound after the 6th seal."

maybe the trumpets will sound after the 4th seal?? or better yet, maybe they are the 4th seal

bennie

I agree with you on that! The trumpets begin in the 4th seal. John was shown the seals 1-6, then in Rev. 7 he was given information that fits into that section.
Rev. 7 can be used to help us understand just when the trumpet time will be. How is that? Because Rev. 7 can be explained using Ezekiel chapter 7.

Ezekiel 7
Shows that that a time has come to scatter Israel from her land.
the end
has come upon the four corners of the land

Okay, now where do four angels stand in Rev. 7?
on the four corners

If we keep reading in Ezekiel chapter 7, we'll find that it is the time to send the wickedest man against Israel and this man will have several ways to slay her.

such as:
the fourth seal rider of Rev. 6
has multiple ways to kill people
sword, hunger, beasts, death
So- here is the starting point of the man of sin.
Now is when some of Israel must about this time get sealed for protection.
Ezekiel writes more about this situation in chapter 9.

Also, the names of the 4th seal rider fit with what Habakkuk told us is for the end.
at the end it shall speak
a proud man
gathers unto himself all the naitons
enlargeth his desire as hell
[is] as death,

Habakkuk chapter 2

so Rev. 6
4th seal - man of sin
5th seal - great tribulation = trumpet 6
6th seal =trib over =trumpet 7
Rev. 7
men are seen in the temple in heaven
Rev. 15
seven plagues of the seven angels
end before men can enter the temple in heaven

[bennie]

I agree with you on that! The trumpets begin in the 4th seal. John was shown the seals 1-6, then in Rev. 7 he was given information that fits into that section.
Rev. 7 can be used to help us understand just when the trumpet time will be. How is that? Because Rev. 7 can be explained using Ezekiel chapter 7.

Ezekiel 7
Shows that that a time has come to scatter Israel from her land.
the end
has come upon the four corners of the land

Okay, now where do four angels stand in Rev. 7?
on the four corners

If we keep reading in Ezekiel chapter 7, we'll find that it is the time to send the wickedest man against Israel and this man will have several ways to slay her.

such as:
the fourth seal rider of Rev. 6
has multiple ways to kill people
sword, hunger, beasts, death
So- here is the starting point of the man of sin.
Now is when some of Israel must about this time get sealed for protection.
Ezekiel writes more about this situation in chapter 9.

Also, the names of the 4th seal rider fit with what Habakkuk told us is for the end.
at the end it shall speak
a proud man
gathers unto himself all the naitons
enlargeth his desire as hell
[is] as death,

Habakkuk chapter 2

so Rev. 6
4th seal - man of sin
5th seal - great tribulation = trumpet 6
6th seal =trib over =trumpet 7
Rev. 7
men are seen in the temple in heaven
Rev. 15
seven plagues of the seven angels
end before men can enter the temple in heaven

hi,

yip, i think we disagree

what i am going to say now is probably going to create some questions, more questions than what i have time to aswer right now.

i realy dont see any of the ezekiel prophecys in the endtimes. i do see parrelles of them in the end times.

ezekiel wrote that book in 598BC to 593 BC, when he was taken away in captivety by Nebechanezzer in the second siege of jerusalem. in the 1st seige Daniel was taken to Babylon, in the 2nd siege Ezekiel was taken and then Jeremiah was still in Jerusalem till 586 BC when Nebuchadnezzer finaly totally destroyed the city. Then Jeremiah went to Egypt.

Sorry just a little back ground. Ezekiel is broken down in 3 section.
1)chapter1 throug 24 is God explaining to the Jews( now in captivety at the time) why they are in captivety and justifying it( there apostacy)
2) chapters 25 to 33 Explaind how God is going to deal with nations around israel( remember, the time is still 598 BC to 593 BC)
3) chapters34 to 48 Reveals Gods glorios plan IF Israel will cooperate with his plan. The 70 weeks of daniel. God would of set up a kingdom on earth have they cooperated, but they did not.

no where in the old testament does it talk about a 2nd advent. with exception of daniel. witch daniel was sealed up till the time of the end.
IF israel ecepted Jesus as there savior Daniel would have been sealed up and would have never came to pass.

I know i have said alot now, but, try to put Ezekiels sandels on and read tchapters 1 to 24 again. God spoke about the nation that went into captivety and will get "there land"( Gods land) back again after 70 years of captivety.

blessings
bennie

[vinsight4u8]

Ezekiel chapter 7 and chapter 9 are about the time of Nebuchadnezzar and that time of four corners. Rev. 7 is also about a time of four corners, so we can use the messages by Ezekiel to help us understand what Rev. 7 is for.

Rev. 7
four corners

Ezekiel
"...unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land."
7:1

Rev.
7:1
"After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth..."

four corners time
Ezekiel 7:2
"...recompense upon thee all thine abominations."

Isaiah 65:6
"Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense into their bosom,"
(7th seal of Revelation begins with silence)
(Israel must be punished before God will keep silence)
Isaiah 18:4
"For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place..."
Psalm 50:3
"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him."
Isaiah 62:1
"For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth.."
v2
"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness..."
Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,...and to bring in everlasting righteousness...and to anoint the most Holy."

Israel will no longer be punished once the time of silence has begun. That means all of the trumpet time must end before the 7th seal. This fits with the end of Rev. 15's words as the seven plagues of the seven angels have to end before men can get into the temple in heaven as shown at the end of chapter 7.
The church (all saints) goes home to heaven in the 6th seal.

Ezkiel 7
v7 "...the day of trouble..."
v15 "The sword [is] without, and the pestilence, and the famine within..."

Rev. 6
the four seal rider has many ways to kill people
"...And power was given unto him over the four part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with beasts of the earth."

The other seals are not the time of the beast. They are giving us clues what he watch for in the country of Iraq - where he will come from.

[vinsight4u8]

Four corners time means Israel must be punished.

Isaiah 58:1
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression..."

voice like a trumpet
Rev. 8
"...by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

And we know that God has Israel punished before the time of silence.
So - trumpets come - end- then the 7th seal time of silence comes later.

[bennie]

Ezekiel chapter 7 and chapter 9 are about the time of Nebuchadnezzar and that time of four corners. Rev. 7 is also about a time of four corners, so we can use the messages by Ezekiel to help us understand what Rev. 7 is for.

Rev. 7
four corners

Ezekiel
"...unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land."
7:1

Rev.
7:1
"After these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth..."

four corners time
Ezekiel 7:2
"...recompense upon thee all thine abominations."

Isaiah 65:6
"Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense into their bosom,"
(7th seal of Revelation begins with silence)
(Israel must be punished before God will keep silence)
Isaiah 18:4
"For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place..."
Psalm 50:3
"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him."
Isaiah 62:1
"For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth.."
v2
"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness..."
Daniel 9:24
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,...and to bring in everlasting righteousness...and to anoint the most Holy."

Israel will no longer be punished once the time of silence has begun. That means all of the trumpet time must end before the 7th seal. This fits with the end of Rev. 15's words as the seven plagues of the seven angels have to end before men can get into the temple in heaven as shown at the end of chapter 7.
The church (all saints) goes home to heaven in the 6th seal.

Ezkiel 7
v7 "...the day of trouble..."
v15 "The sword [is] without, and the pestilence, and the famine within..."

Rev. 6
the four seal rider has many ways to kill people
"...And power was given unto him over the four part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with beasts of the earth."

The other seals are not the time of the beast. They are giving us clues what he watch for in the country of Iraq - where he will come from.

hi

you are writing this still with the idea that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. Ezekiel does not talk about a newly created Israel of 1948. It talks about Israel getting back to there land after the 70 years of captivity. Like i said, there are wonderfull parrellals between the two. (Ezekiel and revelation), BUT we cannot take the prophecy in Ezekiel and LIFT them up out of there context in what they were written.doing so will create a lot of confusion. Students trying to make stuff fit where there is no place for them. What is happening in Israel have no bearing on the endtimes. They will have no role to ply in prophecy. no more than Uganda for that matter


bennie

[vinsight4u8]

Israel will go into captivity again in the same land of Babylon. Jeremiah 25:11 has yet to get completed. Therefore v12 is held in limbo - because until the 70 years come to pass, the last Babylonian king has yet to be punished and his land of Chaldea.

serve the king of Babylon - 70 years
Nebuchadnezzar 605 B.C. and Babylonians
to
Cyrus of Persia - 539 B.C.


Rev. 7 - speaks of the time of four corners - as to the tribes of Israel get sealed.
plus it is has an "after" section within it
The after section is about those of the church that will come out of the great tribulation and after the seven plagues of the chapter 15 angels end - the men will be going into the temple in heaven.

In Ezekiel chapter 7 - we find four corners time brings a man like what?
has several ways to slay during the time when God doesn't show His face
7:22-24
"My face will I turn also from them...Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen.."
v15
"The sword [is] without, and the pestilence and the famine within..."

So now we need the time of Ezekiel chapter 9 to show us what must take place in Jerusalem before the wicked man Nebuchadnezzar could come and destroy the land.

9:2
"...one man among them [was] clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side...stood beside the brasen altar."
9:4
"...set a mark..."

Revelation
Rev. 15:6
"And the seven angels came...clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles."

Rev. 7
v2
"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice...till we have sealed..."
we = the seven chapter 15 angels

[vinsight4u8]

Scripture shows that God hides His face from Israel while the enemy destroys her land and scatters her. So that means ---the great tribulation and the scatter Israel time is over before the 7th seal!

6th seal
Rev. 6:16
"...hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

[bennie]

Scripture shows that God hides His face from Israel while the enemy destroys her land and scatters her. So that means ---the great tribulation and the scatter Israel time is over before the 7th seal!

6th seal
Rev. 6:16
"...hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

hi.

my question i guess is, do you believe the whole of the book of Ezekiel is written for the end of the age. do you believe any of the prophecys was written for the people that was living at that time(586BC)??
bennie

[vinsight4u8]

Hi bennie

I don't believe Ezekiel 7 and 9 are for the endtimes. I'm saying that we can learn God's pattern clues from there.

such as - God hides His face and Israel is troubled
/scattered from her land

when the wickedest of the earth
comes against her land

and has several ways to slay

just as - the four seal rider will come at a time of this same pattern flowing

four corners =

day of trouble is near

Seal some of Israel for protection.

The wicked will have several ways to use to slay her.

God will hide His face


In the 6th seal, God shows His face, so the readers should understand the day of trouble is then over just before that.


Some people try to force the trumpets into a section after the 7th seal is opened. That is so very wrong as God shows up in the 6th seal and the wicked go hide.

Isaiah 2:10-21 has foretold this same type of situation.


Deuteronomy 32 also shows that God will hide His face and see what the end of Israel will be. But then He will repent of some of the evil and go after that enemy nation that scattered her.

Other verses also show us that God will hide His face when Israel is taken by the enemy.

[vinsight4u8]

Please stop and consider this >

If all the angels are standing about the throne in Rev. 7 - then doesn't that mean the four angels aren't standing on the four corners of the earth any longer?


Rev. 8 - shows seven angels stood before the throne and another one comes.
How can this be next?
It can't.

Rev. 7 has four angels stand on the four corners of the earth.
If they let go of the winds - the scatter Israel type of wind will blow her off of her land.

Before Rev. 7 ends - a great multitude of saints are seen out of great tribulation and all the angels stand about the throne.
7:1
"...four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow..."
7:11
"And all the angels stood round about the throne..."
So didn't the four angels holding back the wind also have to show up in heaven?


What about these guys?
Rev. 8:2
"And I saw the seven angels which stood before God..."
/At this time, John had not yet seen all of the angels stand there?
v3
"And another angel came..."


What if this "another angel" is the same one for 7:2?

7:2
"And I saw another angel ..."

Here's another problem with Rev. 8's trumpet actions being after Rev. 7.

Rev. 7:15
"...in his temple..."
8:3
"...incense..."
/Incense is men out of the temple time.
The multitude of the people would be praying outside of the temple at the time of incense.