reconcilitation = rationalising...?

[benedict]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

[Athanasius]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

Want to give some examples?

[tango]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

Not at all. If anything coming to faith was an act of updating my worldview because I'd come across so many things that broke my existing worldview.

[calidog]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

That's a very general question and I can give a general answer:

All is vanity:


Ecc 1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

And there is nothing new:

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.


so I would say no.

[ServantofTruth]

Being a New Christian is a differcult time. It's been 10 years so far for me. But when you accept Jesus Christ and begin to read the bible, you do find some 'problems.'

You have so much zeal and want to share the basic truth you have accepted. But the bible itself says we need the whole of scripture -

2 Timothy 3:16 Everything in the Scriptures is God's Word. All of it is useful for teaching and helping people and for correcting them and showing them how to live. (my added bold)

Now turn back to 1 Timothy 3:6 Which talks about those officals/ officers, in authority in the church.

'They must not be new followers of the Lord. If they are, they might become proud and be doomed along with the devil.'

Now look at the book of Acts chapter 17: verses 10-12. This tells us of the people of Berea who day after day studied the Scriptures to see if these things are true.

There are easy parts of scripture to understand and yes those that need more personal study. The more i study the more i understand God's Will/ Wisdom and the closer i get to that, the closer i get to everyone in the body/ family of Christ.

I am not brain washed. I have not been taught by any man/ church. I have read the bible alone with the help of the same Holy Spirit that lives in all believers.

God doesn't change. God doesn't contradict himself, not inside or outside of the bible.

In the early days i had the whole jigsaw puzzle in my hand, but had only looked at a few pieces and put them together. I admit there were a few pieces i thought would not fit. In this life i won't ever finish that puzzle - as my loving God has revealed only enough for me to handle in this body and mind - but i have assembled a good majority and yes found places for the strange bits and when i put them in, they didn't look odd anymore and actually were essential to the puzzle.

Believe me, it is unlikely, that i or someone here, hasn't held your odd looking puzzle piece and had the same thought you are having now. Love and peace, SofTy.

[Buck shot]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

What problems in my faith?

I guess i don't understand the question

[TrustGzus]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

Xel asked for some examples. That's a good idea. Benedict, you have a worldview. I'm sure you've encountered things that challenge your belief. Give some examples of how you rationalized those things.

[DanDMan64]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

You probably would be right in saying that, but I would hope you understand that we are individuals as well as brethren, so to paint us all with the same brush would be a mistake.

I can't speak for all Christians in general, but personally there are some core beliefs I will never compromise, and there are some minor doctrinal points I'm willing to be persuaded to change, if they were proven to be right by scripture and confirmed by the conviction of The Holy Spirit that they were so.

By the way, I'm voting for McCain, Obama is just too far to the left for me to even consider him. sorry!

[Pilgrimtozion]

would i be right in saying that reconciling your problems in your faith is essentially the act of rationalising things that challange your beliefs?

Hey mate, I hear what you're saying and I cannot deny there are things in my faith that I do not understand. To call them problems would be going too far, but I can understand how some people could perceive them to be problems.

For me, the foundation of my faith is my personal relationship with God. Believing in and living for God per definition implies that certain things are beyond our understanding. If we knew everything God knows and understood everything God understands, we would be God ourselves. The fact that God reveals Himself in Creation also implies that some of those elements are not completely comprehensible.

As such, apparent contradictions may present themselves or things I don't understand. I might encounter 'problems' as you call them, and sometimes that can be difficult. But it doesn't make me question my faith nor do I rationalize those things. I just have to accept the fact that I do not understand everything and cannot comprehend all that goes on. At times that is easy and other times that is a process, but I always come back to the fact that the God is have a personal relationship with is a good God, a God of grace, a God with a plan, a holy God, and a God who is in control.

In other words, because I know God and He has revealed Himself to me, I can accept not understanding everything. I do not need to rationalize things but can rest in the knowledge that God is in control and He knows.

Hope that answers your question!

[benedict]

Xel asked for some examples. That's a good idea. Benedict, you have a worldview. I'm sure you've encountered things that challenge your belief. Give some examples of how you rationalized those things.

well, i personally think i've got it all sewn up in my world view

here it is...

drumroll...












i have absolutely no idea how amost everything in the universe works, why we are here, and all that, and i never will. nor will anyone else...unless this bothers them so much that they need to jump to a conclusion in order to make sense of it all.


you know when you think you see a shape in the shaddows that's a person, but it turns out to be something daft like a lamp or something's shaddow or something...? this is because the human brain craves gestalt (wholeness) and quite often sees it where it isn't actually there, because it's natural instinct is to try to make sense of whatever presents it's self in front of it. at the moment, that's kinda how i see religion and spirituality. it's a comfort, a relief, or something that holds everything together and makes sense of everything...which makes sense...but IMO if you look at things objectively, you'll see that we'll never know everything about the universe and how it works, or why were here - but like most other things in the universe, our knowledge is expanding all the time.

[benedict]

You probably would be right in saying that, but I would hope you understand that we are individuals as well as brethren, so to paint us all with the same brush would be a mistake.

I can't speak for all Christians in general, but personally there are some core beliefs I will never compromise, and there are some minor doctrinal points I'm willing to be persuaded to change, if they were proven to be right by scripture and confirmed by the conviction of The Holy Spirit that they were so.

By the way, I'm voting for McCain, Obama is just too far to the left for me to even consider him. sorry!

.........sigh..........

[benedict]

Want to give some examples?

..........dinosaurs?

[tango]

, that's kinda how i see religion and spirituality. it's a comfort, a relief, or something that holds everything together and makes sense of everything...which makes sense...but IMO if you look at things objectively, you'll see that we'll never know everything about the universe and how it works, or why were here - but like most other things in the universe, our knowledge is expanding all the time.

You're right, we will never know everything this side of heaven. But don't you feel an urge to know more? Or are you honestly happy living your life with a shrug, an "I dunno", and flicking to another TV channel?

Don't you feel an urge to at least know more about what it is that God is offering to you? I figure from the fact you keep coming back here that there must be something about us that interests you, right?

[benedict]

You're right, we will never know everything this side of heaven. But don't you feel an urge to know more? Or are you honestly happy living your life with a shrug, an "I dunno", and flicking to another TV channel?

Don't you feel an urge to at least know more about what it is that God is offering to you? I figure from the fact you keep coming back here that there must be something about us that interests you, right?

i'm trying to do a course for my work, first andy murray distracts me and now you go and reply to my post. if i don't get this done i hope you realise it's totaly your fault!

in reply to the first bit, i think what i actually said in the first post is that knowledge is always expanding - rather the opposite to going "i dunno". i have a very strong urge to know more, but what i want to be utterly sure of (or as sure as possible) is that what i think i know is accurate, and not just what i want to believe.

i personally think you have to really want to believe in god to actually do so. ergo you approach anything suggesting there isn't a god with a bias, as you don't want to believe it. and before you accuse me of not wanting to believe in god etc, or rejecting him, i've done nothing of the sort. the evidence i have seen, by and large, suggests to me that there is no god. that is all there is to it. i could try to persuade myself that there's a god, but then i wouldn't be being honest to myself.

if you say this isn't the case, i suggest you think again, a bit harder

...and by the way, this is where rationalising comes in.

i suppose for some it goes beyond rationalising, as rather than give things much thought (like dinosaurs), you just accept the first possible answer (like "they were there when men were there, the bible talks of big creatures etc", even though this flies in the face of pretty much ALL research)

the things that keep me coming back here are - i'm fascinated by what makes people believe in religion - and - nice people

[dljc]

i'm trying to do a course for my work, first andy murray distracts me and now you go and reply to my post. if i don't get this done i hope you realise it's totaly your fault!

in reply to the first bit, i think what i actually said in the first post is that knowledge is always expanding - rather the opposite to going "i dunno". i have a very strong urge to know more, but what i want to be utterly sure of (or as sure as possible) is that what i think i know is accurate, and not just what i want to believe.

i personally think you have to really want to believe in god to actually do so. ergo you approach anything suggesting there isn't a god with a bias, as you don't want to believe it. and before you accuse me of not wanting to believe in god etc, or rejecting him, i've done nothing of the sort. the evidence i have seen, by and large, suggests to me that there is no god. that is all there is to it. i could try to persuade myself that there's a god, but then i wouldn't be being honest to myself.

if you say this isn't the case, i suggest you think again, a bit harder

...and by the way, this is where rationalising comes in.

i suppose for some it goes beyond rationalising, as rather than give things much thought (like dinosaurs), you just accept the first possible answer (like "they were there when men were there, the bible talks of big creatures etc", even though this flies in the face of pretty much ALL research)

the things that keep me coming back here are - i'm fascinated by what makes people believe in religion - and - nice people

Benedict one could say the same about you. You have done nothing but rationalize why you don't want to believe there is a God. You don't feel you need a Savior, because after all you're perfect right? Although you don't know everything there is to know about the universe it really doesn't matter. You still want to believe that it just happened on it's own. Sounds like rationalization to me.

You believe what you believe because that's what works for you. It's the path of least resistance, it gives you the opportunity to blame someone else for your own shortcomings instead of taking the responsibility upon yourself for the mistakes you've made and will make. To you it would be great if there is no God, because you wouldn't be held accountable for the things you do.

Do you want me to go on about how you are rationalizing? That's all you've done since you've been coming to this board. Rationalizing why you don't want to believe there is a God. So who's kidding whom here?