the direction the 'world' is heading.

[ilovemetal]

in making a recent statment about how hallmark is making gay marrage cards, i figured it's only a matter of time before this world gets so desencitized that something extreme as abortion is on the cards. happy abortion!

well, i doubt it, sorry if that offends, but seriously, i wonder where the world is going? how far will it go? we need some answers form older people, seeing as how much the world has changed since they were young.

swearing gets worse and worse on tv, normal magizines show more and more nudity, everything everywhere is slowly getting 'rated R', and no one seems to notice. i've always said i'd never want to raise kids in this day in age for this very reason.

i think the direction is slowly going worse and worse, just like the bible says in revelation (i think).

[apothanein kerdos]

in making a recent statment about how hallmark is making gay marrage cards, i figured it's only a matter of time before this world gets so desencitized that something extreme as abortion is on the cards. happy abortion!

well, i doubt it, sorry if that offends, but seriously, i wonder where the world is going? how far will it go? we need some answers form older people, seeing as how much the world has changed since they were young.

swearing gets worse and worse on tv, normal magizines show more and more nudity, everything everywhere is slowly getting 'rated R', and no one seems to notice. i've always said i'd never want to raise kids in this day in age for this very reason.

i think the direction is slowly going worse and worse, just like the bible says in revelation (i think).

Due to our human nature every culture goes back and forth between extremes. Look at the Roman Empire - it was common place for people to attend an event where men murdered each other for entertainment, to partake in temple prostitution to please the gods, and if the Emperor didn't have a few young male lovers then something was wrong with him. Not only was homosexual pedophilia accepted, it was taboo not to engage in it if you were a member of high society.

Notice that one of the sins Paul has to condemn in the epistle to the Corinthians is that a young man was having sex with his father's wife (could be the young man's step-mother or actual mother) - but this isn't the big sin Paul is addressing; he's having to get onto the Church for taking pride in the sin.

So yes, our modern day is pretty bad, but it could be far, far, far, far worse. Now, this is no excuse for apathy or to sit back and go, "oh well." We should be trying to make it better, but I would say not to lose hope. Society has a way of bouncing back. As I said at the beginning, we're human. This means that though we are fallen we are also made in the image of God. We can only sin so much before desiring to come back to some stability.

[Phil Fourie]

As I said at the beginning, we're human. This means that though we are fallen we are also made in the image of God. We can only sin so much before desiring to come back to some stability.

Yet it seems that the Bible paints a picture that looks a bit different

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:5-7

Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:24

Lets read Revelations 5 to 19 and it paints the same picture. Mankind has become wicked again, but this time we read of a final and complete destruction of mankind's wickedness

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:1

So, it is pretty clear from Scripture that there is a mighty judgement coming, like in the time of Noah, like in the time of Lot and that the Bible makes it pretty clear that this judgement will be final and that there will be rebound for mankind from this.

We are running out of time, it is pretty clear, mankind as a whole has never been as immoral and wicked as now.

God bless
Phil

[graceforme]

Well, I guess it goes without saying that each generation has become more "sensational" than the one before it. If I look back at my teenage years (in the 60's) I don't think anyone thought it could get any worse than that. Vietnam war, protests, drugs, and yes - abortion. Girls being carved up on tables in dirty back rooms. Now, with homosexuality running rampant bacause the world now condones it, it seems like things can't get much worse.

Wrong - it can get worse and it will get worse right up to the return of Christ.

The world has "itching ears", like Scripture says, and the church seems to be moving in the direction of simply telling them what they want to hear. I was just reading another post on this very thing. But, no matter how complacent we become, the truth never changes. What was sin is still sin. Regardless of what people believe, judgment will not change because they thought that God's way was too hard, or too strict, or they liked to hear it preached in another way that they thought made their sin and lifestyle acceptable.

Have a wonderful, CHRIST-FILLED day.

[apothanein kerdos]

Yet it seems that the Bible paints a picture that looks a bit different

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:5-7

Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:24

Lets read Revelations 5 to 19 and it paints the same picture. Mankind has become wicked again, but this time we read of a final and complete destruction of mankind's wickedness

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:1

So, it is pretty clear from Scripture that there is a mighty judgement coming, like in the time of Noah, like in the time of Lot and that the Bible makes it pretty clear that this judgement will be final and that there will be rebound for mankind from this.

We are running out of time, it is pretty clear, mankind as a whole has never been as immoral and wicked as now.

God bless
Phil

If we use the Bible as are sole source of learning about history, then I guess that argument could be made.

Or one could simply argue that God has intervened at times to bring down immoral empires and at some point in the future He'll step in again. What we do in the mean time, however, should take the immediate context into full view.

Likewise, one could also argue that God will step in and 'break the cycle' so to speak.

The whole point of the end is being missed I think. God isn't stepping in and reacting to human immorality, human immorality is reacting to the time God established. Thus, how immoral the end will be is quite irrelevant I think in looking at our present situation. God will return regardless - who knows, we could be wrong about His return and the amillinealists could have it right. So bringing up, "But in the end..." seems to go a bit off the purpose of the OP.

Therefore, I fail to see how the Bible paints a different picture unless we are to argue that what we know from the Roman Empire is false because it's not found in Scripture. Either what I said about the Roman Empire is true (which makes them decidedly more immoral than us, showing we haven't progressively getting worse) or it's false...which would bring up some interesting discussions.

[Luke34]

in making a recent statment about how hallmark is making gay marrage cards, i figured it's only a matter of time before this world gets so desencitized that something extreme as abortion is on the cards. happy abortion!

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't make any sense. Your logic seems to go thus:

a) Gay marriage–themed greeting cards exist.
b) Gay marriage is something I view as a sin.
c) Abortion is also something I view as a sin.
Therefore,
d) Abortion will eventually end up on a greeting card.

This isn't logical. Just because there are two things which are currently controversial issues in American politics and you view both as sins does not mean that every comparison between the two is going to make sense. For this to work, both examples have to be alike in relation to greeting cards, not in relation to politics or religion (and they still have no resemblance except that, again, both are controversial). Thus, the reason gay marriage is on a greeting card would have to be shared by the abortion procedure. The reason, I assume you'll concede, is that people who have gay friends who are getting married view this as a happy, celebratory occasion, and therefore worthy of a congratulatory card, as are other happy/celebratory occasions. So: Does anyone ever consider abortion a happy or celebratory occasion, as they do marriages, births, birthdays, religious and national holidays, graduations, etc.? (No.)

This isn't the result of the "desensitization of American culture blah etc." I think we can assume that gay people and their friends have always been happy when they (the gay people) have found someone to love, as is the custom. It simply happens that celebrations making this love official are only now legal in the United States, and so celebrations of it are more common, creating a large enough market for Hallmark to sell to. Abortion has never and never will be a happy thing for anyone: Some may see it as a tragic necessity, or a relief tinged with regret, or even see it as nothing particularly special, but never an occasion for celebration and congratulations. To state that it will become so based on greeting cards for a certain type of marriage is illogical and nonsensical.

Aaaand I now have a new winner for my "longest post written about almost nothing."

[Matthew 12:21]

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Luke34 again."

That's happened way too much lately.

[TrustingFollower]

There is no doubt that there have been bad and brutal times in the past. However I do think things will continue to get worse. Scripture tells us that the end of days approach things will continue to get worse.

2 Timothy 3

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.
9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes' and Jambres' folly was also.

As the end grow near we believers will see this more and recognize it more. Therefore we need to be watchful of our own actions and preach the good news of the gospel.

[ilovemetal]

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't make any sense. Your logic seems to go thus:

a) Gay marriage–themed greeting cards exist.
b) Gay marriage is something I view as a sin.
c) Abortion is also something I view as a sin.
Therefore,
d) Abortion will eventually end up on a greeting card.

This isn't logical. Just because there are two things which are currently controversial issues in American politics and you view both as sins does not mean that every comparison between the two is going to make sense. For this to work, both examples have to be alike in relation to greeting cards, not in relation to politics or religion (and they still have no resemblance except that, again, both are controversial). Thus, the reason gay marriage is on a greeting card would have to be shared by the abortion procedure. The reason, I assume you'll concede, is that people who have gay friends who are getting married view this as a happy, celebratory occasion, and therefore worthy of a congratulatory card, as are other happy/celebratory occasions. So: Does anyone ever consider abortion a happy or celebratory occasion, as they do marriages, births, birthdays, religious and national holidays, graduations, etc.? (No.)

This isn't the result of the "desensitization of American culture blah etc." I think we can assume that gay people and their friends have always been happy when they (the gay people) have found someone to love, as is the custom. It simply happens that celebrations making this love official are only now legal in the United States, and so celebrations of it are more common, creating a large enough market for Hallmark to sell to. Abortion has never and never will be a happy thing for anyone: Some may see it as a tragic necessity, or a relief tinged with regret, or even see it as nothing particularly special, but never an occasion for celebration and congratulations. To state that it will become so based on greeting cards for a certain type of marriage is illogical and nonsensical.

Aaaand I now have a new winner for my "longest post written about almost nothing."

well, yes. indeed i will admit my logic is unlogical, and at best stupid. it was merely the first thing that came into my head. i basically meant celibrating 'sin' is slowly being condoned. i'm pretty sure/postive happy ab. will never be on a card, in fact just writing that i was uncomfortable with.

perhaps i could set a better example, but i'm at a loss. the main point i was making, which apoth totally killed was that the world is getting worse. except for the fact back 'in the day' there was gladiator fights, etc....which we don't have now, so even my OP is mistaken. the world is at an odd time, i think, but comapired to the times when watching people fight to the death was entertainment, i'd say we toned it down a bit.

as far as the cards, it's just another step in the direction of 'tolorance', which indeed seems to be getting worse. anyways, that's about it.

-as far as the world, i still do think it will slowly get more 'worldy'. when i go out on the weekends (which is rare) i see hundreds of young people, my age, so lost, going to clubs, trying to find happiness, and it's so hard for them to find it because of the influence of the 'worldy' media and such. everything it seems is self orientated now days, long as your happy, live for the moment, be happy, whatever. it's malarky. it's the lie from the devil to look out for number one, (yourself).

anyways, i lost my thought, long post....it happens ok later.

[apothanein kerdos]

perhaps i could set a better example, but i'm at a loss. the main point i was making, which apoth totally killed was that the world is getting worse. except for the fact back 'in the day' there was gladiator fights, etc....which we don't have now, so even my OP is mistaken. the world is at an odd time, i think, but comapired to the times when watching people fight to the death was entertainment, i'd say we toned it down a bit.

Well I wasn't trying to kill it.

I was pointing out that throughout history we have gone back and forth. It is my belief that at some point - designated by God - the world will become worse and require His final intervention. With that in mind, however, I think we need to be careful in arguing on whether or not the world is getting worse than it ever has been. Now, it certainly is getting worse in terms of the past 100 years (morally speaking).

I think what is interesting is that we are currently living through the complete collapse of Western Civilization. Think of our culture this way - it was birthed with the Greeks, influenced by the Hebrews, was perfected by the Romans, and finally adopted a Judeo-Christian ethic. The Roman Empire collapsed, but the barbaric tribes took on the Roman thinking and Roman culture. The Franks, Anglos, Germanic tribes, and so on all adopted the Roman Culture. In other words, Western Society as a form of culture has existed from the 3rd century AD to the modern era. In Europe Western Culture as we know it has for all intents and purposes died off as a Judeo-Christian consensus has been eradicated. It still exists in America for the most part, but it too is dying off. We're watching a 2,000 year old culture collapse before our very eyes. Now that is something...

[Big T]

well, post-abortion e-cards exist.

[karenoka27]

I don't think things are getting worse, I think they are as bad as they ever were. I think of Noah when he was building the ark. Man was at his worse then. Noah had to keep his eyes on God and just follow Him and what he was called to do.
I think of the times of Judges when every man was doing what was right in his own eyes.
The story of Lot gives a picture of how the people were living during those times. It's sad and ugly.

My point is the world is filled with sin and pride and self-righteousness. We are called to keep our eyes on the Lord and have His mind. We are called to share the gospel to the ends of the earth. We are not called to sit back and look at the world and what is becoming of it. God already knows that. He saw that back in the Garden of Eden.

[ilovemetal]

Well I wasn't trying to kill it.

I was pointing out that throughout history we have gone back and forth. It is my belief that at some point - designated by God - the world will become worse and require His final intervention. With that in mind, however, I think we need to be careful in arguing on whether or not the world is getting worse than it ever has been. Now, it certainly is getting worse in terms of the past 100 years (morally speaking).

I think what is interesting is that we are currently living through the complete collapse of Western Civilization. Think of our culture this way - it was birthed with the Greeks, influenced by the Hebrews, was perfected by the Romans, and finally adopted a Judeo-Christian ethic. The Roman Empire collapsed, but the barbaric tribes took on the Roman thinking and Roman culture. The Franks, Anglos, Germanic tribes, and so on all adopted the Roman Culture. In other words, Western Society as a form of culture has existed from the 3rd century AD to the modern era. In Europe Western Culture as we know it has for all intents and purposes died off as a Judeo-Christian consensus has been eradicated. It still exists in America for the most part, but it too is dying off. We're watching a 2,000 year old culture collapse before our very eyes. Now that is something...

oh no worrie. i know you didn't mean kill it like i meant kill it. i just meant, you basically wrote something that i didn't think of. my main point was it's begging worse than it ever has been, which ike you said, isn't exactly the best way to look at it. morally yes, the past 100 years. at least, from my paretns stories, you know the ones; 'didn't lock the door, everyone friendly...etc'

now it's like, alarms on houses, cars, bikes get stolen if they're not locked up, things like that. i'd say, morally, since my parents were young there's been a decline is various things.

well, post-abortion e-cards exist.

oh.
bummer?
i guess they're comfort cards?

I don't think things are getting worse, I think they are as bad as they ever were. I think of Noah when he was building the ark. Man was at his worse then. Noah had to keep his eyes on God and just follow Him and what he was called to do.
I think of the times of Judges when every man was doing what was right in his own eyes.
The story of Lot gives a picture of how the people were living during those times. It's sad and ugly.

My point is the world is filled with sin and pride and self-righteousness. We are called to keep our eyes on the Lord and have His mind. We are called to share the gospel to the ends of the earth. We are not called to sit back and look at the world and what is becoming of it. God already knows that. He saw that back in the Garden of Eden.

good points K. as long as we don't adopt the 'ol: well, there's nothing I can do about it, what is a single person gonna do...

that's a bad mentality. we must work for the Kingdom of God.

ok. i'm out.

[Big T]

yes, they are promotedas "comfort" cards and they are primarily e-cards at the moment.