Posting Freak
I want folks to let me have their thoughts on this - and before anyone says "preaching that is in the power of the Holy Spirit", that is a given - but how can we KNOW that preaching is spiritual? How can we IDENTIFY it? And, no matter the reaction or "feeling" people get from preaching, what would be the signs that preaching is NOT spiritual - but carnal or legalistic or academic?
Any books on the subject would be helpful too.
Citizen
**
Does it line up with the word of God?
It sounds like you may be talking about a prophetic word of prophetic preaching. If anything about it does not line up 100% with the word of God (the Bible) then it is NOT a word from God. If it does not in any way contradict the bible anywhere and this person has a close personal relationship with God and after receiving it, you pray about it, God will tell you that, yes it was from Him or no it was a bunch of bunk.
"I am the Christian the devil warned you about!"
guest
That's pretty much the conundrum isn't it? In any disagreement one side will decide they've "got the spirit" and the other one is just "being carnal" but in all my time of searching I've never seen that defined. Sure there are obvious examples at the extreme... Rev. Phelps obviously slants his teachings to satisfy a carnal hate nature. But when you eliminate those examples, how do we deal with every other question in our faith, especially when Christians are divided on every single topic?Originally Posted by 9Marksfan
So short answer is: I have no idea, and I don't think I ever will.
But as a counter question, are "academic" and "spiritual" mutually exclusive in preaching?
Preparing
You can tell by the fruit of those whose ears take in the preaching, that is the ultimate measuring rod. Anyone can sit down and hold up what is being preached to scripture, but when the truth is taken in as milk or meat and it's digested - we can know it's true by the fruit it bears. That would include new believers coming into the church and growth of those who are already in Christ.
Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
Not second or third, but first.
Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
when He is the source of all hope,
when His love is received and freely given,
holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
will all other things be added unto to you.
guest
But in every church you have those who listen and learn, those who could care less and stagnate, and a whole range in between. With everything pretty much averaging out, how does one tell?
Preparing
Time.
Those who care less and stagnate will remain as such. But, the ones who learn and listen - they will change. They don't average each other out, faith is personal and I grow different that you do and two others will grow differently according to how God wants them to grow.
It takes the Spirit in the heart of those listeners and learners to take the message and feed off of it. To hunger and want more. If the preaching is truth, one can't not grow when they have a heart for the Lord.
Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
Not second or third, but first.
Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
when He is the source of all hope,
when His love is received and freely given,
holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
will all other things be added unto to you.
Posting Freak
Thanks for your candour - it's this very difficulty that drove me to start the thread - I think that so often it's down to people's "gut feelings" about a sermon - and whether it's the sort of thing they "like" - so people are often very subjective in their analysis - I also think that if they don't LIKE the preacher, they're not going to expect God to speak to them throuhg him - and are going to be looking for faults in their doctrine, delivery, application, etc.
I would say absolutely not - anyone who has ever heard the late Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones will have heard a fantastic combination of academic rigour and undeniable spiritual power - perhaps it was because he believed that the gospel was "logic on fire".....But as a counter question, are "academic" and "spiritual" mutually exclusive in preaching?
Veteran
I'm not sure if this is totally on topic - but you can hear a very good speaker on the Word and everyone comes out buzzing and commenting on how good it was. The next day you ask someone what it was about and they say i can't remember, but i do remember - it was very good. Is it just me, or is there a contradiction there? SofTy.
On the Way
Jesus told Peter to "feed My sheep." Spiritual teaching is spiritual food. You may not remember a given sermon or teaching a year from now or even two weeks from now, but that doesn't mean it didn't nourish you or contribute to your growth. I think the purpose of a spiritual message isn't necessarily to be memorable, but to nourish the person spiritually, to get inside them, influence their thinking and help them to grow in the Lord, just as food helps a little child to grow.
Love In Christ,
Tanya
just passing through
Are you asking for yourself as you embark on your own ministry? I'll address my thoughts in that direction.
First, the one doing the preaching needs to be in frequent and constant prayer and also in the Word. I like how George Mueller read his Bible on his knees, praying as he read, or reading as he prayed. A person who lives this kind of life being dedicated and sold out to God, will have power in his preaching. When he takes the pulpit, his words and message will be Biblically and spiritually rooted, and will glorify God.
Men who do not do this, will have lots of worldly talk mingled in their sermons. They will sound similar to motivational speakers that businesses employ.
In other words, what comes from the pulpit is the direct result of what the preacher has been feeding into his mind and spirit.
Blessings,
Road Warrior
Proverbs 4:2323 Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life.
Grand Master
One way is that the sermon will include three things called the three witnesses (God's character as revealed in Scripture, human physiology, and natural types found in this creations that point to spiritual ones)
Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.
www.woc-church.org
Veteran
The only 100% way of knowing, and i'm sorry if this is unhelpful, is when a verse or idea in scripture - is expanded on and taught also in scripture.
When i hear a talk that turns scripture into a man made story or explaination - i'm left thinking - Wasn't God's way good enough for that minister?
If you are starting a ministry as our friend RoadWarrior says - is there anywhere i can read about it? I would love your encouragement and to support you and pray. God bless SofTy.
Posting Freak
Thanks for your encouragement, SoftY - I've been preaching for a while and can send you PowerPoints of some of my messages if you like, to get a feel for them - but my preaching has come under criticism recently for being "unspiritual" - yet I aim to make it God-honouring, Christ-centred, Biblical and challenging - every time - I'm confused!The only 100% way of knowing, and i'm sorry if this is unhelpful, is when a verse or idea in scripture - is expanded on and taught also in scripture.
When i hear a talk that turns scripture into a man made story or explaination - i'm left thinking - Wasn't God's way good enough for that minister?
If you are starting a ministry as our friend RoadWarrior says - is there anywhere i can read about it? I would love your encouragement and to support you and pray. God bless SofTy.
Posting Freak
Where do you get this from? And how does human physiology get included in a sermon? Are we talking body language here?!?
Posting Freak
I guess I'm asking personally to some extent, but I felt that the subject was important enough to merit a wider discussion.
Amen! Excellent advice - and George Mueller was the founder of the Open Brethren, which is what our church is!First, the one doing the preaching needs to be in frequent and constant prayer and also in the Word. I like how George Mueller read his Bible on his knees, praying as he read, or reading as he prayed. A person who lives this kind of life being dedicated and sold out to God, will have power in his preaching. When he takes the pulpit, his words and message will be Biblically and spiritually rooted, and will glorify God.
I think I may not be praying enough as I prepare and may be relying on my knowledge of Scripture - yet - I sense God's help both in the preparation and the delivery - I think I'm needing more passion, though, but don't want it to be "fake" - know what I mean?Men who do not do this, will have lots of worldly talk mingled in their sermons. They will sound similar to motivational speakers that businesses employ.
How very true - what a challenge - as M'Cheyne said "What a man is on his knees before God, that he is - and no more"....In other words, what comes from the pulpit is the direct result of what the preacher has been feeding into his mind and spirit.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks