Posting Freak
I want folks to let me have their thoughts on this - and before anyone says "preaching that is in the power of the Holy Spirit", that is a given - but how can we KNOW that preaching is spiritual? How can we IDENTIFY it? And, no matter the reaction or "feeling" people get from preaching, what would be the signs that preaching is NOT spiritual - but carnal or legalistic or academic?
Any books on the subject would be helpful too.
Citizen
**
Does it line up with the word of God?
It sounds like you may be talking about a prophetic word of prophetic preaching. If anything about it does not line up 100% with the word of God (the Bible) then it is NOT a word from God. If it does not in any way contradict the bible anywhere and this person has a close personal relationship with God and after receiving it, you pray about it, God will tell you that, yes it was from Him or no it was a bunch of bunk.
"I am the Christian the devil warned you about!"
guest
That's pretty much the conundrum isn't it? In any disagreement one side will decide they've "got the spirit" and the other one is just "being carnal" but in all my time of searching I've never seen that defined. Sure there are obvious examples at the extreme... Rev. Phelps obviously slants his teachings to satisfy a carnal hate nature. But when you eliminate those examples, how do we deal with every other question in our faith, especially when Christians are divided on every single topic?Originally Posted by 9Marksfan
So short answer is: I have no idea, and I don't think I ever will.
But as a counter question, are "academic" and "spiritual" mutually exclusive in preaching?
Preparing
You can tell by the fruit of those whose ears take in the preaching, that is the ultimate measuring rod. Anyone can sit down and hold up what is being preached to scripture, but when the truth is taken in as milk or meat and it's digested - we can know it's true by the fruit it bears. That would include new believers coming into the church and growth of those who are already in Christ.
Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
Not second or third, but first.
Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
when He is the source of all hope,
when His love is received and freely given,
holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
will all other things be added unto to you.
guest
But in every church you have those who listen and learn, those who could care less and stagnate, and a whole range in between. With everything pretty much averaging out, how does one tell?
Preparing
Time.
Those who care less and stagnate will remain as such. But, the ones who learn and listen - they will change. They don't average each other out, faith is personal and I grow different that you do and two others will grow differently according to how God wants them to grow.
It takes the Spirit in the heart of those listeners and learners to take the message and feed off of it. To hunger and want more. If the preaching is truth, one can't not grow when they have a heart for the Lord.
Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
Not second or third, but first.
Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
when He is the source of all hope,
when His love is received and freely given,
holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
will all other things be added unto to you.
just passing through
Are you asking for yourself as you embark on your own ministry? I'll address my thoughts in that direction.
First, the one doing the preaching needs to be in frequent and constant prayer and also in the Word. I like how George Mueller read his Bible on his knees, praying as he read, or reading as he prayed. A person who lives this kind of life being dedicated and sold out to God, will have power in his preaching. When he takes the pulpit, his words and message will be Biblically and spiritually rooted, and will glorify God.
Men who do not do this, will have lots of worldly talk mingled in their sermons. They will sound similar to motivational speakers that businesses employ.
In other words, what comes from the pulpit is the direct result of what the preacher has been feeding into his mind and spirit.
Blessings,
Road Warrior
Proverbs 4:2323 Guard your heart above all else,
for it determines the course of your life.
Grand Master
One way is that the sermon will include three things called the three witnesses (God's character as revealed in Scripture, human physiology, and natural types found in this creations that point to spiritual ones)
Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.
www.woc-church.org
Veteran
The only 100% way of knowing, and i'm sorry if this is unhelpful, is when a verse or idea in scripture - is expanded on and taught also in scripture.
When i hear a talk that turns scripture into a man made story or explaination - i'm left thinking - Wasn't God's way good enough for that minister?
If you are starting a ministry as our friend RoadWarrior says - is there anywhere i can read about it? I would love your encouragement and to support you and pray. God bless SofTy.
1 Co 2: 12
***
I think a prayer is spiritual, where somehow the sense of what really says the biblical text is found and exposed.
Blessings.
Veteran
I would first consider the source...is the pastor leading and living according to the scriptures? Does his life reflect that the Holy Spirit is alive and working through him?
Secondly, the preacher must ALWAYS point to God and never to himself. What he teaches/preaches should not be based on his personal agenda. He should not be afraid to proclaim God's truths for fear of losing membership or popularity.
And of course the obvious....what he teaches should line up with the Word of God 100%.
On the Way
This is a great question. In my experience, preaching that is in the Spirit is when the person speaking is using the Scripture and communicating the message in such a way that many people go away with something that directly speaks to them personally. I don't really know how to describe it, but when the speaker speaks directly to your heart using God's word, he is speaking in the Spirit. I have experienced this many times in several churches. It's when you say, "He doesn't even know me but seemed to know just what I needed to hear today." It may be a correction or an exhortation, some comforting word, or some guidance, but either way it is exactly what you needed at that time. God spoke to you through that preacher/pastor/speaker.
It doesn't speak to the person spiritually even if the person is open and ready to receive from God. I think these kinds of messages tend to be intentionally targeted for a particular type of person in the audience, and it isn't something that can be taken by all and applied in different ways by many different people in different situations.And, no matter the reaction or "feeling" people get from preaching, what would be the signs that preaching is NOT spiritual - but carnal or legalistic or academic?
Love In Christ,
Tanya
Senior Member
I would say that if what the preaching is
about is in some direct way magnifying
the person or work of Jesus Christ.
Unspiritual would elevate man.
Put in very simplistic terms
Mark
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14
(All Scripture quoted is from NKJV unless otherwise noted)
Posting Freak
"What Defines Spiritual Preaching.?"
First natural preaching is preaching the law, psychology. social reform, community betterment etc. etc.
On the other hand, Spiritual Preaching centers itself around the Gospel which is something totally alien to the natural mind. It centers on a crucified Savior/God justifying unworthy, wicked sinners. It concentrates on the Incarnation/Obedience/Death/Burial and Resurrection of our Lord. Things found foolish to the natural mind. It concentrates on the promises of God which to the secular mind seems totally ridiculous and unlikely to happen (Christ's bodily return for example).
It does not concentrate on what the world sees as 'spirituality' such as visions of angels, methods of meditation, 'how to incense your prayer closet', drawing close to the Eternal Being etc. etc.
With God the most spiritual things come in the most ordinary packages...e.g. our God as a babe lying helpless in a manger, or an impoverished widow giving of her only mite, or a boy handing over his five loaves and two fish to Jesus and seeing it stuff over 5000 with 12 baskets of fragments leftover.
So what is Spiritual Preaching? I think at it's core it can be summed up in these verses...
For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(1Co 1:22-25)
Posting Freak
Thanks for your candour - it's this very difficulty that drove me to start the thread - I think that so often it's down to people's "gut feelings" about a sermon - and whether it's the sort of thing they "like" - so people are often very subjective in their analysis - I also think that if they don't LIKE the preacher, they're not going to expect God to speak to them throuhg him - and are going to be looking for faults in their doctrine, delivery, application, etc.
I would say absolutely not - anyone who has ever heard the late Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones will have heard a fantastic combination of academic rigour and undeniable spiritual power - perhaps it was because he believed that the gospel was "logic on fire".....But as a counter question, are "academic" and "spiritual" mutually exclusive in preaching?
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