Why I disagree with the pre-tribulation rapture

***tango*** · Oct 5th 2008, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by quiet dove

Why would we have to convert someone to a particular end time view in order to preach the Gospel to them? I was saved many years before any exposure to any end time view, didn't make me any less saved.

I wasn't talking about converting people to a particular end-time view, my point was that if we are too complacent in the "I'm secure in my beliefs" concept where it relates to Jesus then we end up not preaching the Gospel at all.

***quiet dove*** · Oct 5th 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by tango

I wasn't talking about converting people to a particular end-time view, my point was that if we are too complacent in the "I'm secure in my beliefs" concept where it relates to Jesus then we end up not preaching the Gospel at all.

You are kinda losing me, I guess I find the more secure I am, the more I grow closer to Him the better my witness is. But I think we are getting off topic. I'm confused and I am probably derailing, I misunderstood what you meant.

***tango*** · Oct 5th 2008, 04:25 PM

OK, let's cut that one short and get back to topic

**IBWatching** · Oct 6th 2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by tango

Unfortunately taking this argument to its conclusion would mean there is no need to tell others about Jesus, since I am at peace about my own beliefs. Which directly contradicts his explicit instruction in Mark 16:15.

You needed to read all my posts prior to that one. We are dealing with end times' positions here, not the Gospel.

**Forgiven Alaskan** · Oct 8th 2008, 05:15 PM

Rev. 3:10 does not use the word rapture but seems to speak of a rapture type event. Also the rapture is a great parallel of a typical Jewish wedding at the time.

The father prepares the house, and tells the son when he feels it is completed. Then the Son calls down to the bride to come up because the house is prepared. They consumate the marriage for "a week" and then the marriage supper/celebration begins after that.

Does it get any more clear than that?

**mfowler12** · Oct 8th 2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Forgiven Alaskan

Rev. 3:10 does not use the word rapture but seems to speak of a rapture type event. Also the rapture is a great parallel of a typical Jewish wedding at the time.

The father prepares the house, and tells the son when he feels it is completed. Then the Son calls down to the bride to come up because the house is prepared. They consumate the marriage for "a week" and then the marriage supper/celebration begins after that.

Does it get any more clear than that?

Interesting idea. Could you elaborate just a bit more?

***Dragonfighter1*** · Oct 9th 2008, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Forgiven Alaskan

Rev. 3:10 does not use the word rapture but seems to speak of a rapture type event. Also the rapture is a great parallel of a typical Jewish wedding at the time.

The father prepares the house, and tells the son when he feels it is completed. Then the Son calls down to the bride to come up because the house is prepared. They consumate the marriage for "a week" and then the marriage supper/celebration begins after that.

Does it get any more clear than that?

Well actually only sort of.... I looked up rev 3:10 in the greek linear at http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/rev3.pdf
and dont quite see what you see. Perhaps you can amplify since you understand it more fully than I. (I want to understand your point accurately.)

Also I understood that in traditional greek wedding the groom went to the brides home and walked back with her to his home... perhaps I am wrong but I seem to remember it that way. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks for helping

**mfowler12** · Oct 9th 2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonfighter1

Well actually only sort of.... I looked up rev 3:10 in the greek linear at http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/rev3.pdf
and dont quite see what you see. Perhaps you can amplify since you understand it more fully than I. (I want to understand your point accurately.)

Also I understood that in traditional greek wedding the groom went to the brides home and walked back with her to his home... perhaps I am wrong but I seem to remember it that way. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks for helping

Do you mean greek or jewish on the wedding?

**Rookie78** · Oct 9th 2008, 02:42 PM

If the restrainer talked about in II Thess 2:6-7 is the Holy Spirit, then at least we know that the anti christ will not be revealed until he is taken away for a while (rapture)

**IBWatching** · Oct 9th 2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Forgiven Alaskan

...Does it get any more clear than that?

You DO realize that in this case the Bride is part gentile (or neither Jew nor gentile, take your pick), don't you?

***Richard H*** · Oct 9th 2008, 05:28 PM

Hmmm
One thing I never could grasp about pre-trib AND the restrainer being the Holy Spirit:

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to drawn to and to embrace Christ.
One needs the Holy Spirit in order to be born again.
If the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way…

Where do all these supposed post rapture saints come from?
You know - the martyrs.

Richard

***Dragonfighter1*** · Oct 9th 2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by mfowler12

Do you mean

greek

or jewish on the wedding?

You are correct to assume I made an error. I did indeed mean JEWISH. Thanks for pointing that out.

***Dragonfighter1*** · Oct 9th 2008, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Richard H

Hmmm
One thing I never could grasp about pre-trib AND the restrainer being the Holy Spirit:

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to drawn to and to embrace Christ.
One needs the Holy Spirit I order to be born again.
If the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way…

Where do all these supposed post rapture saints come from?
You know - the martyrs.

Richard

Good Question.. I don't think there is an answer that will fit smoothly... ...but maybe I'm wrong.
My big issue is... how there can be a pre-trib rapture when it says plainly in Thessalonians that the dead in Christ MUST be raised first (Before the living saints) and in Rev 20:5 it clearly states that the dead in Christ are raised at the same time at the millennium begins. ...But I am not skilled enough to argue that point fully yet.

**Rookie78** · Oct 9th 2008, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Richard H

Hmmm
One thing I never could grasp about pre-trib AND the restrainer being the Holy Spirit:

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to drawn to and to embrace Christ.
One needs the Holy Spirit in order to be born again.
If the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way…

Where do all these supposed post rapture saints come from?
You know - the martyrs.

Richard

People will still be able to be saved after the rapture. God's word will not pass on after the rapture. Plus you would think that some people left behind had at least heard of the concept of the rapture and maybe flock to God's word after contemplating, "where'd all these suckas go?"

***quiet dove*** · Oct 9th 2008, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Richard H

Hmmm
One thing I never could grasp about pre-trib AND the restrainer being the Holy Spirit:

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to drawn to and to embrace Christ.
One needs the Holy Spirit I order to be born again.
If the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way…

Where do all these supposed post rapture saints come from?
You know - the martyrs.

Richard

Folks were saved by faith, Jesus death atoning for all sin - of OT faithful, prior to Pentecost, why would the rapture of the Church prevent anyone from being saved during the tribulation?