My Hearts Desire,
I am not very good at "forums", I never manage to write what I am thinking so that one can know also the emotion that I feel. I am one of those persons who needs a disclaimer right from the top that says " No matter how my post makes you feel, or what you think you've heard-I really DO LOVE YOU and I Believe! I guess I am just one of "those" who likes looking people in the eyes while they talk so I can note if those eyes are full of joy, pain, or tears, and if perhaps it was I who put it there by being speaking words of comfort from the Lord or, heaven forbid, words of self. No, forums just aren't me, but I try.
I agree with you, NO ONE who truly belongs to the Lord, those who have been chosen from before the foundation of the earth can lose their salvation. I love Romans 8 which tells us
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What, then, can we say about all of this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 The one who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for all of us-surely he will give us all things along with him, won't he?
Rom 8:33 Who can bring an accusation against God's chosen people? It is God who justifies them!
Rom 8:34 Who can condemn them? Christ Jesus, who died-and more importantly, who has been raised and is seated at the right hand of God-is the one who is also interceding for us!
I believe the only reason we do not lose our salvation is because as true believers we do the will of the Father, ( Matt7) and we allow ourselves to be conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ by picking up our cross and dying to our flesh, just as He did. And also because He who began this work in us is able to complete it. And it's only by God's grace that any of it happens, Praise be to the Name of Jesus, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lord's and to the Father who is the Only True God!
When I first got saved, I saw myself as a little girl climbing up on Daddy God's lap, laying my head on his chest and just crying my heart out. Sometimes it was because I had just been abused, sometimes it was for the abuser, or maybe I was telling Him how much I loved Him. Most often it was because I had just behaved very badly. Frequently, it was only He and I that noticed whatever sin it was that I was sorry and repenting of and asking for forgiveness for. I often think of what Jesus said in Luke 7:47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
I hope you will bare with me as I share this for there is a point I am trying to get too...really
I was tossed around like a rotten egg as a child and finally around 10 or 11 my Dad took me to an orphanage. He didn't tell me where we were going, he just load me in the car to "take a drive". When we arrived at this modern, sanitary, red brick building we parked and went in. There was no one in the lobby and you could hear the echo of your voice when you spoke. There was a lady sitting behind a glass window with a little metal round space in it that you spoke through. My dad placed me in front of him as we walked pass the empty seats and with his hand in the middle of my back, nudged me toward the window. Then I heard my fathers voice, which was unusually loud for him, and magnified by the echo bouncing off the walls say ďTake her, I don't want her anymore". Can you imagine the shock? There had been no "warning shots" given, no threats, nothing to tip me off or prepare me. Well, if that wasn't bad enough, they didn't want me either "ha ha daddy" is what I thought but actually they explained the legal issues to him and how he would have to sign away parental rights and have it approved by a judge etc.
So, he thanked the lady and we walked back out past those empty chairs, across the parking lot, and to the car in silence. There was silence for weeks, in fact the silence between my father and I did not break until there was a knock at the door and when opened a very well dressed older woman was standing there. My father spoke then, and he said ďgo get the box from under your bed and put your things in it and go with this woman", and that was it. I was now officially an orphan "ta da! That was a good magic trick daddy!Ē There were few other things that hurt more, because this was my dad, who I adored and when I say ďthingsĒ I mean all types of abuse and rape and things spawned in the places where demons dwell.
Between the ages of 10 and 19 I lived to fulfill my fatherís spoken expectations of me. My father was diagnosed as being a ďpsychopath now they use the word sociopathĒ which explains now what I did not understand then and that is why his words to me were always so cruel and demeaning and outright nasty.
Nineteen was the age at which the Lord called me to himself, I had accumulated a lot of things that required serious forgiveness. My garment was not " just spotted", I had rolled in puddles of mud and other things that smelled real bad, had let it dry, and then rolled again and again. Understandably, when the day came and Father God called my name and drew me to Him I repented wholeheartedly, accepting the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ for my sin, I not only was washed but somehow God cut out that hard heart and poured so much love into me that I can't help but to love and to forgive. It's not me, it's God. I had hoped to share a testimony here but after doing a word count I couldnít.
I am trying to learn to keep things short. I had posted previously in the ďMaturing in ChristĒ section and had to divide what I was sharing into Praising God Part 1 and then Part 2. I sincerly thank everyone of you that took the time to read all of that. I pray the Lord rewards you for your loving kindness and sacrifice.
It's not that I am not able to forgive myself, and wasnít sure if you were implying this or not when you said "Sometimes we can't forgive ourselves until we see ourselves totally forgiven by God". It is a truthful statement regardless. I do admit that forgiving others has always been easier for me that to forgive myself and it has been a difficult lesson to learn for me.
I am able to say that by Godís grace and healing that I have forgiven myself for the weakness, disobedience, the adultery. The pain I caused Michaelís former wife has been more difficult but because I know Father God did forgive me when I repented I am able to forgive myself but itís taken a lot of casting down of imaginations and high things that wish to exalt themselves above God.
My battle and question is whether our illnesses are judgments we must live with due to our actions being willful disobedience or not. Even though I was being deceived by the lies being taught from the pulpits, and somewhat later, I was self-deceived into thinking that since "I had learned to delight myself in the Lord He was now giving me the desires of my heart" which had always been to have a wonderful loving husband who also loved the Lord, I have a distinct memory of telling him that leaving his wife for me was not right, and he should go home and " create with his wife, whatever it was he was getting from me that made him so happy". So I knew it was wrong, I was under conviction, and I went ahead and did it anyway.
Michael had been diagnosed with just one of the 3 illnesses he has now before he retired from 24 years in the military, which was just before I met him in 2001.
I began to get sick with that same illness ( chronic fatigue) about 8 months after we moved in together, and we both came down with the other illnesses "together" for the course of the next year so that by 2003 I had already filed and was about to receive my disability. These illnesses are not contagious so we didn't catch them from each other. It's obvious that they are a curse ( as all sickness and disease is).
The reason we are seeking the truth is so we know how to respond biblically and correctly.
If this about our faith is being tested, then we will keep walking in faith and standing against the enemy. If this is a judgment because of willful sin, then we need to stop fighting against God and accept it and yes, keep praying for his mercy.
In addition and equally important is that, I believe strongly that there are many who love God who do not believe that there is sin that having been committed can, will, and do, bring judgments like this.
I had never heard Hebrews 10:26-29 taught. Nor the lesson of the death of King Davidís child and sword that did not depart from his house because of willful sin. Granted, I did not read my Bible much on my own, and relied on those in the pulpit to guide me into what I need to know. So, I bear a lot of the responsibility here for my own ignorance. Although I am not like this today, there are many out there who mimic my past behavior and they will perish because of it.
It concerns me deeply that in the Western Church today, that many preachers are teaching that there are no real consequences for sin anymore. I know for a fact that one man seeking to be set free from homosexuality drove down a main strip in one of Americas largest cities and stopped at every Church whose doors were open to him and spoke to whatever "clergy" was present. I am not sure how many "pastors" or leaders if you will he said that he actually spoke with. Some , although they were there, refused to talk to him without an appointment, some because he was not a member, whatever. I believe he attempted to go into 50 churches of all denominations. Not one told him that he could be delivered by accepting Christ and receiving deliverance...NOT ONE...some told him that God love him and forgave him, many told him that he was going to hell, several told him " Well, homosexuality is in the Bible, and the Bible says they will go to hell, and SOMEONE HAS TO FULFILL THE SCRIPTURE!
IF what my husband and I are going through is because we committed willful sin, and we could be like this for as long as our lives last, or it leads to death as in the case of David's child. Then I want to be able to stand here in front of my brothers and sisters and say without hesitation "THIS IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU WILLFULLY SIN, DON'T DO IT". Let what we suffer be a warning and an example and worth something to our brethren!
Until I hear from the Lord that I/we are being lied to by the enemy, and our faith is being tested, because we were not in willful sin and disobedience, just deceived and stupid, OR that we are seeing Hebrew 10 in its full application, I am going to flip flop, like a fish, and no one who is double minded receives anything from God (James 1:7).
So this is why this is so important to me. I am either flipping or flopping, or I am going to live the rest of life like a beacon; warning people who do not understand as I did not understand what happens when one decides that it's okay to ďjust this onto "fall weak", or give in, or whatever it is our flesh and the devils are wanting us to say and believe instead of it being willful SIN!
Thank you once again for replying and listening to such a long reply from me. I so want to go and hide in the silence of my home and just pray and not put this out here for the world to read. However, I believe this is something the Lord Jesus wants us to think upon, itís one of those things that is spoken about in the Word which says Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
Maybe itís clear to everyone but me, in which case, I thank you for being weak to the weak and for your patience.