What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

[moonglow]

I notice alot of people feel in their hearts the tribulation is near..yet the bible says our hearts are wicked!

Jeremiah 17:9

9 “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

Paul Washer sermon jam 1 ('how do you know you are saved' is his message...kind of important if you think the tribulation is about to start).

I am saying..don't trust your heart!

The definition for the heart in the bible means the mind..our emotions...feelings.

30 years ago I was having alot of end time dreams and felt in my heart the tribulation was about to start. It obviously didn't. Why was I wrong? Many others were saying the same thing. 20 years ago people were saying they felt in their hearts the end was near...10 years ago people were saying the same thing...last year people were saying this...a year from now people will be saying this...five years from now they will be saying this...10, 20, 30 years from now they will be saying this. Shoot they were saying this in Paul's day that Christ was about to return...

Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament

Verse 1
Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him;

This outlines the chapter, which regards the Second Advent, an event which the Thessalonians had mistakenly assumed to be "just at hand," some of them actually having stopped work in anticipation of it!

The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ...
For comments on this title, see under 2 Thess. 1:2. "Coming" in this place refers to the final Advent and not to some manifestation of power and grace prior to the Advent.

Our gathering together unto him ...
The great feature of the final day will be the uniting of believers with the Lord. The expression "gathering together" is found nowhere else in the New Testament except in Heb. 10:25, where it signifies the gathering together of the Christians for worship.

Verse 2
to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand;

This is Paul's denial that he ever taught that the judgment day was "at hand" in his lifetime. True, some of the Thessalonians had mistakenly understood it that way, but it was their fault by doing so, not Paul's; and in the same manner, the exegetes of our own times who are always prattling about Christ and the apostles being mistaken in their assumption that the Second Advent was soon to arrive have mistakenly read the New Testament, and it is their fault, not the fault of the New Testament. In fact, Satan may have had a strong hand in fostering the misunderstanding. Hendriksen said:

In view of 2 Thess. 3:17, the idea that someone had even sent a forged letter (a letter purporting to be from Paul) - though open to certain objections - cannot be lightly dismissed. F2

Shaken from your mind ...
This means "thrown off the course of sound reasoning and thinking."

It is clear enough from this verse that Paul denied having anything whatever to do with creating the false notion in the heads of the some of the Thessalonians that they might expect the coming of the Lord at once!
************************

Then he clearly tells us what the signs will be ...what will happen just before the return of Christ. There is no need to try to rely on our feelings on this. When it happens you will know without a doubt what is going on.

So lets say the end is not near! What are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Do you know what plans God has for you? What work He wants you to be doing? Are you busy doing His work?

The best thing we can do to be ready for the end is be working on our relationship with Him! Everyone does these post to 'get ready' 'be ready'...but never say exactly what that is. I mean exactly how do you get ready for an antichrist?

Matthew 24 says those in Judea are to flee when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...

Some take that to mean to just flee wherever they are at...but yet if the whole world is affected by a beast...an antichrist, where exactly will it be safe? If earthquakes are going on everywhere, hundred pound hail is falling from the sky...fires burning everywhere...exactly where are going to flee too?

Since Jesus says those IN Judea need to flee I would say this only concerns those actually in Judea...

Someone on another thread brought up some good points on food shortage...that it would do no good to stock up on food as those hungry mops will be breaking down your door and stealing it..probably over your dead body. Plus not all of us have the money to buy extra food anyway.

Some think going to the woods and living will be a good idea, yet Revelation says a third of the trees and grass will burn and the water will be poison. Mountains leveled, islands disappearing...

Only the wicked seems to be trying to hide in caves.

So how do you 'get ready?'

The bible says nothing about us 'getting ready' or listening to our hearts to know when the time is near.

I would get ready like you would if you knew you only had six months left to live. Get right with God.

God bless

[Dani H]

If we really live every day as if we expected Jesus to return on that day, then we would be ready, always.

I understand what it is like to be aching for the return of the Bridegroom, and to be longing for Him so much. But we should carry that into our prayer closets and sup with Him, and He with us.

Sure, it's good to be like the children of Issachar who could discern the signs of the times, but I think there is too much assumption happening, and not enough knowing. We can think we know, when we don't really know at all. We may have a sense of something, that could be related to something entirely different, i.e. anxiety within ourselves, among a host of other things. But, we have been commanded to not let our hearts be troubled, and to let God's peace be the arbitrator within our hearts. And so His children should always walk in that peace, above anything else. Every generation for the last 2000 years has claimed that theirs was the last, and that the great tribulation was surely upon them, or at least at the doors, and yet, here we still all are.

[Realist1981]

Paul wrote the second letter to the Thessalonians because they thought the second coming of Christ already happened based off of his first letter to them. That's why he corrected them.

[HisLeast]

Wait... I thought total assurance that the 7 year tribulation started exactly "very soon" was a salvation issue.

[moonglow]

Oh I hope for Christ's return everyday! But that is different then the dread of expecting the beast everyday...

My grandma used to have a poster in her kitchen that I puzzled over alot as a child..it said...

Say nothing you wouldn't want to be saying when Christ returns

Do nothing you wouldn't want to be doing when Christ returns

Hear nothing you wouldn't want to be hearing when Christ returns

First it took me a long time to even understand that poster..then when I did
as a child that seemed pretty impossible as the expectation was to basically be perfect at all times because you never know when He will return! And being a kid...well...I wasn't exactly any angel...so that had me a little worried...

Now as an adult though I understand. Jesus WILL return unexpectedly and we need to be busy doing our Father's work when He does. Sure there will be signs...maybe that is why for thousands of years people have been expecting Him...the signs keep us on our toes so to speak... So we don't slack off...

God bless

[aceinthehouse]

Moonglow....

#1)Israel became a Nation in 1948(The Generation that see's this happen,will be the only generation to not die)More evidence of the rapture as the living will be "caught up" and a Generation is a 100 years.

#2)Condaleeza Rice has said herself that a "Peace Plan" is in the works for Israel,but not finalized till our next President sometime next year.My reasoning for it being the "7 year plan" will be explain on #3)....The "7 year peace treaty" will be the beginning of the "7 year Great Tribulation period"...Probably the #1 prophesy in the bible to PROVE that we are there!

#3)Russia,Iran and China are already allies and making nuclear trades and positioning their pieces on the chess board my friend.They have many other Middle Eastern Countries with them and are specifically the Countries that will invade Israel in the Battle of Armegeddon.

#4)Do to the fact that we ARE the generation of Jesus Christ return also means 1 other thing...That the Antichrist is here already!He(satan) has to be allowed by God to do the things that was written so long ago,for everything to take place as was said in the bible!So the question remains....If the Antichrist is already here,then who is it?


Nobody knows who he is,but I have a pretty good idea....yet this idea seems laughed at!We shall see...


I don't honestly know when the rapture will be cause it very well could be pre,mid or even post....But I believe in my heart that this decade is going to be very interesting none-the less....

Lets just say Jesus isn't just at the door now,he's knocking!

God bless you all and stay VERY close to Jesus Christ!

[Literalist-Luke]

If I were to make a guess on how long we have left (and that's all it is, a guess, nothing more), I would say the Tribulation is still a good 40-50 years off if not more. Of course, there's no telling what events between now and then could dramatically speed things up.

My reasoning behind that is because the Antichrist is going to be Islamic, Babylon is going to have to rise again to become a world-class city, plus the Antichrist is going to be from the region around Turkey. Babylon and Turkey will both have to rise for the Tribulation to get underway.

(Those of you who are Pope=Antichrist and "Revived Roman Empire" enthusiasts, just save your breath, I'm not interested.)

Oh, and for those who will wag your finger at me, saying that I should live every day like He's coming tomorrow, our life is nothing but a puff of wind. There's no telling what could happen any moment to end my life. I'm still prepared to meet Jesus at any moment, regardless of when the Tribulation is, so chill.

[HisLeast]

#1)Israel became a Nation in 1948(The Generation that see's this happen,will be the only generation to not die)More evidence of the rapture as the living will be "caught up" and a Generation is a 100 years.

This is something I grew up "knowing" to be true. Except prior to the 1980's everyone was saying a generation was 40 years and not a second longer. After reading the scriptures with no preconceived notions I was very confused, because I didn't find half the stuff I thought I knew. So my question is...
(1) How long is a generation, really?
(2) How do we know the nation of Isreal as it is today is prophetic fulfillment?

#2)Condaleeza Rice has said herself that a "Peace Plan" is in the works for Israel,but not finalized till our next President sometime next year.My reasoning for it being the "7 year plan" will be explain on #3)....The "7 year peace treaty" will be the beginning of the "7 year Great Tribulation period"...Probably the #1 prophesy in the bible to PROVE that we are there!

It'll be interesting (1) if the plan is ever implemented and (2) it actually has anything to do wit h"7 years". So far its a rumor of something that might be implemented.

[Literalist-Luke]

#1)Israel became a Nation in 1948(The Generation that see's this happen,will be the only generation to not die)

Jesus was referring the generation of His day not passing away until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It's already been fulfilled.

More evidence of the rapture as the living will be "caught up" and a Generation is a 100 years.

So what number will you randomly choose for a generation when 2049 rolls around and we're still here?

#2)Condaleeza Rice has said herself that a "Peace Plan" is in the works for Israel,but not finalized till our next President sometime next year.My reasoning for it being the "7 year plan" will be explain on #3)....The "7 year peace treaty" will be the beginning of the "7 year Great Tribulation period"...Probably the #1 prophesy in the bible to PROVE that we are there!

So then, who's the antichrist? Obama? We'll see.

#3)Russia,Iran and China are already allies and making nuclear trades and positioning their pieces on the chess board my friend.They have many other Middle Eastern Countries with them and are specifically the Countries that will invade Israel in the Battle of Armegeddon.

Revelation 16 makes it clear that every nation on earth invades Israel at Armageddon.

#4)Do to the fact that we ARE the generation of Jesus Christ return also means 1 other thing...That the Antichrist is here already!

That would be nice.....(if the Rapture were really that close, that is)

He(satan) has to be allowed by God to do the things that was written so long ago,for everything to take place as was said in the bible!So the question remains....If the Antichrist is already here,then who is it?

Looks to me like you're saying it's Obama

Nobody knows who he is,but I have a pretty good idea....yet this idea seems laughed at!We shall see...

Withholding information?

[moonglow]

Hate to add a third objection to your post here...but I grew up being told this stuff too and can't just let it slide...


[QUOTE]

Moonglow....

#1)Israel became a Nation in 1948(The Generation that see's this happen,will be the only generation to not die)More evidence of the rapture as the living will be "caught up" and a Generation is a 100 years.

There is nothing in the bible saying Israel has to become a nation again before these things take place....the verse commonly used is the 'fig tree' blooming in Matthew 24 but a closer look in Luke 21 says when ALL trees are blooming we know summer is near.


29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near.

Not too mention if this were true why then did some of the Christians in Paul's day think they missed the return of Christ? Certain preachers in recent times, pushed the idea of the fig tree blooming to mean Israel would become a nation and all of these things couldn't happened until that event happened. They either use this verse in Matthew (ignoring the passage in Luke 21) or use verses in the OT that were already fulfilled. Jesus is truly simply pointing out how if we can tell when summer is near, due to trees blooming (any tree!) then surely we can see the other signs clearly that He is talking about to come. Its no more then that but in the 70's Hal Lindsey make the idea popular this meant Israel coming a nation. The fig tree blooming. Hal doesn't have a great record on getting prophesies right. He also said the United kingdom was the seven headed beast.. He has made many predictions...they don't pan out so he makes up new ones and still has followers though he has the mark of being a false prophet. I hate to say this stuff about him as I used to be a follower of his also...but seriously...just believe what Jesus says...by their fruits you will know them.

#2)Condaleeza Rice has said herself that a "Peace Plan" is in the works for Israel,but not finalized till our next President sometime next year.My reasoning for it being the "7 year plan" will be explain on #3)....The "7 year peace treaty" will be the beginning of the "7 year Great Tribulation period"...Probably the #1 prophesy in the bible to PROVE that we are there!

They were working on a peace treaty thirty years ago too! Which is partly why at the time I thought we were on the verge of the seven year trib also...the peace treaties fail every time! They have been trying for years and years...so I wouldn't hold my breath on this one either.

#3)Russia,Iran and China are already allies and making nuclear trades and positioning their pieces on the chess board my friend.They have many other Middle Eastern Countries with them and are specifically the Countries that will invade Israel in the Battle of Armegeddon.

heard this 30 years ago too. I believe that yes, we would have nuked ourselves long ago if it wasn't for the hand of God...

#4)Do to the fact that we ARE the generation of Jesus Christ return also means 1 other thing...That the Antichrist is here already!He(satan) has to be allowed by God to do the things that was written so long ago,for everything to take place as was said in the bible!So the question remains....If the Antichrist is already here,then who is it?

Jesus doesn't say 'that generation far into the future.' Who was He talking TOO when He said this generation? He was talking to the disciples standing right there in front of Him. He said to them..'this generation'. How do you think the disciples took it? Did they think oh He doesn't mean our generation but some future generation?

Nobody knows who he is,but I have a pretty good idea....yet this idea seems laughed at!We shall see...


I don't honestly know when the rapture will be cause it very well could be pre,mid or even post....But I believe in my heart that this decade is going to be very interesting none-the less....

Lets just say Jesus isn't just at the door now,he's knocking!

God bless you all and stay VERY close to Jesus Christ!

God bless you too. Yes I agree Jesus is knocking on the hearts of all that will receive Him and has been for a long long time now.

[Partaker of Christ]

Jesus was referring the generation of His day not passing away until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It's already been fulfilled.

Hi LL!

Matt 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation that shall not pass, is the generation that will see 'all these things'

What 'all things' are these?

Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This [Matt 24:32] is the spring time season:

Matt 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Was AD70 the summer?

I believe the tribulation days are much closer then 40 years, but I do very much agree with you that the antichrist will hijack Islam, and that Turkey will be very much involved. I don't believe that Russia is Gog or Magog.

[moonglow]

Hi LL!

Matt 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation that shall not pass, is the generation that will see 'all these things'

What 'all things' are these?

Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This [Matt 24:32] is the spring time season:

Matt 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Was AD70 the summer?

I believe the tribulation days are much closer then 40 years, but I do very much agree with you that the antichrist will hijack Islam, and that Turkey will be very much involved. I don't believe that Russia is Gog or Magog.

Jesus wasn't saying it would be summertime...He was only using this as an example of how people notice the signs of when summer is near and should be able to notice the signs of the times. He goes on to say they should pray their flight isn't in the winter or on the Sabbath...why? Why would He say such a thing if He knew this would happen in the summertime?

For those that think He meant the whole literal world would be involved in this and if you think its in the summer when it will happen you have a major problem...its summer in some parts of the world when its winter in the other parts! Its never summer all over the world at the same time...

70 A.D. is a year...like 2008 is a year...

God bless

[Literalist-Luke]

Hi LL!

Matt 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation that shall not pass, is the generation that will see 'all these things'

What 'all things' are these?

Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This [Matt 24:32] is the spring time season:

Matt 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Was AD70 the summer?

I believe the tribulation days are much closer then 40 years, but I do very much agree with you that the antichrist will hijack Islam, and that Turkey will be very much involved. I don't believe that Russia is Gog or Magog.

You have to take the entire Olivet Discourse into consideration, including Matthew 24/25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. When you put all three together and consider that Jesus was answering three different questions (listed below), then the comment about "this generation" makes perfect sense. None of the three versions of the Olivet Discourse is comprehensive. They have to be combined together, using their common points to determine Jesus' meaning.

Jesus was discussing three things the Apostles asked Him about:

1. When will the destruction of the temple happen?

2. What will be the sign of your coming?

3. What will be the sign of the end of the age?

The answer is spread out among all three accounts of the Olivet Discourse. The most extensive account of the destruction of the temple is given in Luke 21. However, there is a statement in Matthew 24 that pertains to that destruction - "This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

It is very obvious that the generation that heard Jesus' words is long gone. So whatever He was talking about is something that has to have already happened. What did He discuss in the Olivet Discourse that has already happened? The destruction of the temple. It's not hard to figure out when you're not trying to find some dark, hidden meaning that was never intended. Jesus was giving the most straight-forward answer He could give. He wanted His disciples to understand Him. So for us to attempt to take His straight-forward answer and make it into something so confusing that thousands of people are debating about what it "means" is to rob ourselves of having a crystal-clear understanding of exactly what He said.

[My heart's Desire]

If I were to make a guess on how long we have left (and that's all it is, a guess, nothing more), I would say the Tribulation is still a good 40-50 years off if not more.

I really don't think it that long off, I think it'd be pressing it, YET....I wouldn't be surprised if it was 40- 50 either. The Word says the God is long suffering. I see the events moonglow sees that are occuring, but still anything could put a stopper in the works prophetically.
Good post LL.

[dan]

What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

I notice alot of people feel in their hearts the tribulation is near..yet the bible says our hearts are wicked!

I am saying..don't trust your heart!

The definition for the heart in the bible means the mind..our emotions...feelings.

Verse 2
to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand;

Shaken from your mind ...
This means "thrown off the course of sound reasoning and thinking."

So lets say the end is not near! What are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Do you know what plans God has for you? What work He wants you to be doing? Are you busy doing His work?

The best thing we can do to be ready for the end is be working on our relationship with Him! Everyone does these post to 'get ready' 'be ready'...but never say exactly what that is. I mean exactly how do you get ready for an antichrist?

Matthew 24 says those in Judea are to flee when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...

Someone on another thread brought up some good points on food shortage...that it would do no good to stock up on food as those hungry mops will be breaking down your door and stealing it..probably over your dead body. Plus not all of us have the money to buy extra food anyway.

Some think going to the woods and living will be a good idea, yet Revelation says a third of the trees and grass will burn and the water will be poison. Mountains leveled, islands disappearing...

Only the wicked seems to be trying to hide in caves.

So how do you 'get ready?'

The bible says nothing about us 'getting ready' or listening to our hearts to know when the time is near.

I would get ready like you would if you knew you only had six months left to live. Get right with God.

God bless

If there is not to be a Tribulation in my lifetime then I am teaching my children the right things anyways.

As the the Words Of Christ say:

MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

...And this:

LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

...So, I believe that I know how to welcome mobs, God Willing.