God does not intervene II

[edaps7]

Ok, i wanted to try this again, but this time a wanted to make my position a little more clear then see what others had to say.

When i say God does not intervene i am saying I believe...
* He directly intervened in the past to show us who he was, what he expected of humans etc.
*He directly intervened through Jesus, by coming to earth.
*He directly intervened with Paul to share the word with us Gentiles.

The above things i am certain of, however when it comes to the times in which we live, this is where i tend to think that God is no longer hands on.

what i mean by this is...
*God does not miraculously heal people because we pray.
*God does not shower riches upon me because i am a good faithful Christian.
*God doesnt "tell" us to do things directly, (what i mean by "tell"...is i pray and i hear a whisper in the wind, or sign, or something of that nature.)
*etc. etc. etc.

Reasons I have come to this conclusion is that, if i do believe God still directly intervenes then i MUST believe he is a child torturer, and that he kills innocent followers of him for kicks. Why do i say these things you may ask? Everyday there are untold numbers in Africa that pray to God to bring them simple things like food, and water, but many of them arent getting these things and perish. They prayed just like i do, why are none of their prayers answered? i guess God just hates Africans. Also why would there ever be more than one religion? The way i see it, if you believe God intervenes, then God created a bunch of people that don't believe in the "right" religion just to turn around and kill them later and send them to hell.

This isnt the God I read about in the bible.

I think God gave us everything we needed to go forward and prosper i.e. the bible, Jesus sacrifice. Why do we need more? Weare also told to take care of each other, so it is our responsibility that there are thousands dying around the world...God did not do it.

[dworthington]

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.....

[Kahtar]

*God does not miraculously heal people because we pray.

Yes He does.

God does not shower riches upon me because i am a good faithful Christian.

If we seek first the kingdom of God, all we NEED will be provided us.

God doesnt "tell" us to do things directly, (what i mean by "tell"...is i pray and i hear a whisper in the wind, or sign, or something of that nature.)

Yes, He does.

Reasons I have come to this conclusion is that, if i do believe God still directly intervenes then i MUST believe he is a child torturer, and that he kills innocent followers of him for kicks. Why do i say these things you may ask? Everyday there are untold numbers in Africa that pray to God to bring them simple things like food, and water, but many of them arent getting these things and perish. They prayed just like i do, why are none of their prayers answered? i guess God just hates Africans. Also why would there ever be more than one religion? The way i see it, if you believe God intervenes, then God created a bunch of people that don't believe in the "right" religion just to turn around and kill them later and send them to hell.

This isnt the God I read about in the bible.

I think God gave us everything we needed to go forward and prosper i.e. the bible, Jesus sacrifice. Why do we need more? Weare also told to take care of each other, so it is our responsibility that there are thousands dying around the world...God did not do it.

These two paragraphs contradict each other. You have much to learn about the God you read about in the Bible, my friend. And, seemingly, about life in general. But it's okay to be where you are. Keep seeking Him, and learning of Him.

[edaps7]

Yes He does.
If we seek first the kingdom of God, all we NEED will be provided us.
Yes, He does.

evidence please, i gave reasons, you havent

These two paragraphs contradict each other. You have much to learn about the God you read about in the Bible, my friend. And, seemingly, about life in general. But it's okay to be where you are. Keep seeking Him, and learning of Him.

how do these contradict

[Biastai]

what i mean by this is...
*God does not miraculously heal people because we pray.
*God does not shower riches upon me because i am a good faithful Christian.
*God doesnt "tell" us to do things directly, (what i mean by "tell"...is i pray and i hear a whisper in the wind, or sign, or something of that nature.)
*etc. etc. etc.

I'm not in firm agreement or disagreement on your first point I quoted above. I hesitate because of all the attestations to the power of prayer. So on that point I will not comment further.

However, I would agree with your next two. Material blessings brought by so-called righteousness is a belief held by many in Biblical Israel & Judah. On the other side of the coin, when calamity befalls one, it must've been because he sinned and angered God. (Distinctive Ideas of the OT, Norman Snaith)

The writer of Job regarded this as an oversimplfied "formula" of God and therefore wrote the book to address this problem of theodicy. The book concludes by not giving us specific answers as to the reasons for Job's lot but telling us that God is far above man's understanding and fathomability.

When one starts to think God "reacts" to such and such an event and "does" this and that to correct the situation, isn't he describing the actions of God in man's terms? God does not do as man does.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD."

Isaiah 55:8, NIV

[Literalist-Luke]

Ok, i wanted to try this again, but this time a wanted to make my position a little more clear then see what others had to say.

When i say God does not intervene i am saying I believe...
* He directly intervened in the past to show us who he was, what he expected of humans etc.
*He directly intervened through Jesus, by coming to earth.
*He directly intervened with Paul to share the word with us Gentiles.

The above things i am certain of, however when it comes to the times in which we live, this is where i tend to think that God is no longer hands on.

what i mean by this is...
*God does not miraculously heal people because we pray.
*God does not shower riches upon me because i am a good faithful Christian.
*God doesnt "tell" us to do things directly, (what i mean by "tell"...is i pray and i hear a whisper in the wind, or sign, or something of that nature.)
*etc. etc. etc.

Reasons I have come to this conclusion is that, if i do believe God still directly intervenes then i MUST believe he is a child torturer, and that he kills innocent followers of him for kicks. Why do i say these things you may ask? Everyday there are untold numbers in Africa that pray to God to bring them simple things like food, and water, but many of them arent getting these things and perish. They prayed just like i do, why are none of their prayers answered? i guess God just hates Africans. Also why would there ever be more than one religion? The way i see it, if you believe God intervenes, then God created a bunch of people that don't believe in the "right" religion just to turn around and kill them later and send them to hell.

This isnt the God I read about in the bible.

I think God gave us everything we needed to go forward and prosper i.e. the bible, Jesus sacrifice. Why do we need more? Weare also told to take care of each other, so it is our responsibility that there are thousands dying around the world...God did not do it.

So prayer is a waste of time?

[RogerW]

Ok, i wanted to try this again, but this time a wanted to make my position a little more clear then see what others had to say.

When i say God does not intervene i am saying I believe...
* He directly intervened in the past to show us who he was, what he expected of humans etc.
*He directly intervened through Jesus, by coming to earth.
*He directly intervened with Paul to share the word with us Gentiles.

The above things i am certain of, however when it comes to the times in which we live, this is where i tend to think that God is no longer hands on.

what i mean by this is...
*God does not miraculously heal people because we pray.
*God does not shower riches upon me because i am a good faithful Christian.
*God doesnt "tell" us to do things directly, (what i mean by "tell"...is i pray and i hear a whisper in the wind, or sign, or something of that nature.)
*etc. etc. etc.

Reasons I have come to this conclusion is that, if i do believe God still directly intervenes then i MUST believe he is a child torturer, and that he kills innocent followers of him for kicks. Why do i say these things you may ask? Everyday there are untold numbers in Africa that pray to God to bring them simple things like food, and water, but many of them arent getting these things and perish. They prayed just like i do, why are none of their prayers answered? i guess God just hates Africans. Also why would there ever be more than one religion? The way i see it, if you believe God intervenes, then God created a bunch of people that don't believe in the "right" religion just to turn around and kill them later and send them to hell.

This isnt the God I read about in the bible.

I think God gave us everything we needed to go forward and prosper i.e. the bible, Jesus sacrifice. Why do we need more? Weare also told to take care of each other, so it is our responsibility that there are thousands dying around the world...God did not do it.

Greetings Edaps,

If I am understanding you here, what you are saying is that God created, gave us His Son, and revealed His Son, told us what He wants us to do, and showed us how to do it, then He pretty much bowed out and leaves the rest up to fallen mankind? In other words you don't believe that God is providential in the affairs of man, nor do you believe He governs His creation?

Blessings,
RW

[theBelovedDisciple]

By saying that God does not intervene anymore on your certain 'points' you stated... by stating this , one would conclude that at some point prior He must of.... according to your logic and wisdom...

God states in His Word...

that He changes not.... He DOES NOT change... He means what He says.. and I say this as a GENTLE reminder to you...

so in essense your saying God has changed... or changes according to your wisdom or understanding....

but He says...

My ways are nor your ways... nor are My thoughts your thoughts....

God Himself Knew me before the foundation of the world.. He 'knew' me in my mother's womb, before He saved me in 1994 He blessed me beyond measure... even when I didnt deserve it... it was His unconditional love and goodness which led me back to Him... and now He blesses me.. with many blessings and some of it is financial but their are other blessings that go way beyond that..... He speaks to me in different ways.. thru His Word.. and other ways....

By your stating that God doesnt 'intervene' or isnt active in these areas contradicts what many true Christians regard as a part of their 'faith' and walk with their Redeemer........

Putting God in a 'box' will get you know where but frustration and bitterness...

I suggest you look to Golgotha and that bloody tree.....and that event and the Person who was Involved in it....... Look to the One who Gave it all .. laid down His life unconditionally.... the One who thru the Grace of God .. tasted death for every person ever alive....
Jesus the Christ.. who is God manifest in the flesh... there you will begin to understand the Greatness of God's Love for His Own and this planet as a whole....

There you will find a God who is not 'limited' to certain things or 'limited' to man's intellect or carnal understanding... You will find a God who HAS NOT CHANGED... even from the foundation of the world!

[militarywife]

I would like to Praise God for healing me. God healed me from the serious disease of alcoholism. HEALED, DELIVERED, RESTORED, and then even added MORE blessing to my life with JOY overflowing.

My relationship with God is so much MORE than simply salvation. When I accepted the gift of salvation...I also gave my life over to God. I surrendered all. I believe God has so much more for ALL who chose to accept His gifts.

[Kahtar]

evidence please, i gave reasons, you havent

What kind of evidence do you want? Scriptural evidence? There's plenty of that. You have only to open the book and start reading it.
Do you want me to prove somehow that God hears and answers prayer and takes care of His children whom He loves? There is no evidence I could provide you that would convince you. You are set in your unbelief, and if one were raised from the dead in front of you, you would not believe.
The problem is not lack of evidence. The problem is your unbelief. And I can assure you God will not do any of those things in your life UNLESS you simply take Him at His Word and believe what He said.

[Equipped_4_Love]

Ok, i wanted to try this again, but this time a wanted to make my position a little more clear then see what others had to say.

When i say God does not intervene i am saying I believe...
* He directly intervened in the past to show us who he was, what he expected of humans etc.
*He directly intervened through Jesus, by coming to earth.
*He directly intervened with Paul to share the word with us Gentiles.

God still directly intervenes, but it is through the work of the Holy Spirit. Actually, God intervenes a lot more now than He did in the Old Testament. Instead of directly communicating with a few people, like Moses and Abraham, for many, He now communicates with all of humanity through the Holy Spirit.

Everyday there are untold numbers in Africa that pray to God to bring them simple things like food, and water, but many of them arent getting these things and perish. They prayed just like i do, why are none of their prayers answered? i guess God just hates Africans.

Why are you singling out Africans? There is poverty and starvation in every country....even America.

Remember the story of the woman who gave the 2 mites in Mark 12? Remember what Jesus said of her?

Assuredly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.

Don't you worry about those starving people in Africa who continue to pray and trust the Lord, despite their poverty. Their rewards are not on earth, but in Heaven. The Lord rewards sacrifice.

Heb. 13:15 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.

How much more of a sacrifice do you think it is to offer prayers and thanksgivings to God in your poverty, than in the wealth of your abundance? Would it make sense that a starving person who offers God praise daily is making more of a sacrifice than one whose needs are continually met, and who receives earthly blessings from God?

Those who sacrifice more on earth will receive a greater reward in heaven, so don't you worry about those starving people in Africa. The Lord hears their prayers, and he will reward them accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if their eternal reward far outweighs ours.

Also why would there ever be more than one religion? The way i see it, if you believe God intervenes, then God created a bunch of people that don't believe in the "right" religion just to turn around and kill them later and send them to hell.

There are different religions because Satan is at work behind them. He loves nothing more than deceiving mankind.
We have the truth of the word, though, which God gave us freely, and even sent His Son to hang on a cross and die for....that we may receive this truth. We have no excuse for our unbelief...Paul calls it willful ignorance.

I think God gave us everything we needed to go forward and prosper i.e. the bible, Jesus sacrifice. Why do we need more? Weare also told to take care of each other, so it is our responsibility that there are thousands dying around the world...God did not do it.

True....God does not directly inflict human suffering. He has in the past, for judgement, but we are living in an age of grace.

[edaps7]

Greetings Edaps,

If I am understanding you here, what you are saying is that God created, gave us His Son, and revealed His Son, told us what He wants us to do, and showed us how to do it, then He pretty much bowed out and leaves the rest up to fallen mankind?

yes unless you can show me why this isnt logical.

In other words you don't believe that God is providential in the affairs of man, nor do you believe He governs His creation?

i do believe he governs his creation, but he doesnt physically intervene.

[Kahtar]

Edaps, I think you deserve a better answer than I gave you. So here is my answer. Go and read it.http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=53967

[Literalist-Luke]

yes unless you can show me why this isnt logical.

i do believe he governs his creation, but he doesnt physically intervene.

So what's the use of praying?

[edaps7]

that He changes not.... He DOES NOT change... He means what He says.. and I say this as a GENTLE reminder to you...

so in essense your saying God has changed... or changes according to your wisdom or understanding....

...There you will find a God who is not 'limited' to certain things or 'limited' to man's intellect or carnal understanding... You will find a God who HAS NOT CHANGED... even from the foundation of the world!...

The whole "God doesnt change" angle always baffles me a little? I am not implying that at all. The funny thing is "change" isnt defined so people ascribe whatever meaning to it they want. If i change my socks am i still me?...of course i am. Just becasue God chooses to do thing differently at different times does not mean he changed, maybe the course changed but not him. Hope this clears things up on this

By your stating that God doesnt 'intervene' or isnt active in these areas contradicts what many true Christians regard as a part of their 'faith' and walk with their Redeemer........

wow, God has to meddle in affairs in order for people to believe in him? So you are saying if I am right then millions of people will just walk away from God?

Putting God in a 'box' will get you know where but frustration and bitterness...

You are right i am frusturated and bitter at people that think God will fix their problems for them.