Geiste questions (RQ2)

[geiste37]

Okay I'll start this thread to avoid possible confusion since I am going to start labeling questions.

1) What day is the Sabbath or is it even really a set day?

2) I've heard many a theist say that they do not believe in the Big Bang because every effect must have a cause. What is god's cause?

3) Do you see yourself as more of a "moderate" or "fundamentalist"?

[Tanya~]

Okay I'll start this thread to avoid possible confusion since I am going to start labeling questions.

1) What day is the Sabbath or is it even really a set day?

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. We call it "Saturday."

2) I've heard many a theist say that they do not believe in the Big Bang because every effect must have a cause. What is god's cause?

God is self-existent. He has life in Himself. It is because of this that He is able to give life. Everything else including us, had to be given life, and we cannot retain our own life. We can't stop ourselves from dying, because we don't have the power of life that God has. But God is the Living God, self-existent, uncreated, uncaused.

3) Do you see yourself as more of a "moderate" or "fundamentalist"?

I would need you to define those terms.

[geiste37]

From dictionary.com

moderate- a person who is moderate in opinion or opposed to extreme views and actions, esp. in politics or religion.
( I would also say in my opinion that, on top of this, they are willing to accept new POVs if it either has more evidence behind it or their original thought is disproved.)

fundamentalist- a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming.
( So to me someone who says the Bible is 100% inerrant and believes so no matter what else is put in front of them.)

[Tanya~]

From dictionary.com

moderate- a person who is moderate in opinion or opposed to extreme views and actions, esp. in politics or religion.
( I would also say in my opinion that, on top of this, they are willing to accept new POVs if it either has more evidence behind it or their original thought is disproved.)

fundamentalist- a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming.
( So to me someone who says the Bible is 100% inerrant and believes so no matter what else is put in front of them.)

I think you've posed a little bit of a false dichotomy here. Holding to the truth of Scripture isn't an 'extreme' view, it's simply taking the Scriptures at face value. A person who denies these 'fundamentals' of the Christian faith isn't a Christian. The physical resurrection in particular is absolutely essential to salvation, as is belief in the sacrificial atonement of Christ. These are spelled out in Scripture. If Jesus was not born of a virgin, then a man was his father and He is not the only begotten Son of God.

But these are not extremist views. Believing that Jesus rose from the dead isn't 'extremist' but it is fundamental. Apparently a person would be moderate if they sort of believed in the resurrection but that it doesn't really matter so much.

It would be extremist if Christians forced others to "become Christian" but it is not extremist for Christians to believe the tenets of the Christian faith.

[geiste37]

Here's the way I see the two.

When told the Earth is round and presented with satellite pictures.

Moderate- Okay yes I see that the Earth is round.

Fundy- Those are fake the Bible is right.

[Tanya~]

But that's not the "fundie" position. The Bible doesn't say "the earth is flat."

[Athanasius]

Okay I'll start this thread to avoid possible confusion since I am going to start labeling questions.

1) What day is the Sabbath or is it even really a set day?

2) I've heard many a theist say that they do not believe in the Big Bang because every effect must have a cause. What is god's cause?

3) Do you see yourself as more of a "moderate" or "fundamentalist"?

1. Would have been Saturday, that said, it's not a big issue.

2. God is uncaused. God is considered a being that can give life but is also life itself. There's no logical contradiction.

3. Neither, only because people tend to define those words in extremes

Here's the way I see the two.

When told the Earth is round and presented with satellite pictures.

Moderate- Okay yes I see that the Earth is round.

Fundy- Those are fake the Bible is right.

Well like Tanya said, the Bible doesn't say the earth is flat. Not that those responses are representative of the moderate or fundamental position.

[markinro]

Here's the way I see the two.

When told the Earth is round and presented with satellite pictures.

Moderate- Okay yes I see that the Earth is round.

Fundy- Those are fake the Bible is right.

Support your claim that fundamentals would ignore satellite pictures. We have answered your questions. Please do not insult your hosts by using slang terms.

[Slug1]

Here's the way I see the two.

When told the Earth is round and presented with satellite pictures.

Moderate- Okay yes I see that the Earth is round.

Fundy- Those are fake the Bible is right.

Geiste37, do you believe the earth is round cause of what you were told since you were a child and cause of "photos"? Or cause you have seen the earth from space with your own eyes? Just asking cause so many people want "evidence" about God and even when they are presented with evidence they deny it. I can give testimony of God, I can present people to you who have been cured of cancer (for example), present the xrays and doctors reports and people still don't believe. Because the adult mind says.... FAKE! But it was faith that made this healing possible... it's very real.

As a child when a parent tells us the world is round, when a teacher tells us the world is round and floats in space even without presenting pictures... we believe it... Why?

Faith of a child... that is why God tells us to be like a child.

BTW, I believe the earth is round. It's also stated in the Bible it's round and that was way before anyone could research such a fact.

[dljc]

Here's the way I see the two.

When told the Earth is round and presented with satellite pictures.

Moderate- Okay yes I see that the Earth is round.

Fundy- Those are fake the Bible is right.

Did you ever consider those "photo's" are fake? They are flat aren't they? The image in the photo is round, but the paper you are looking at is flat isn't it?

No where in the Bible does it say or even give the impression that the earth is flat. A mere drop of water balling up as it falls, is a good indication of that of a 3 dimensional sphere that is the earth as well. At a slight elevation at sea level, one can see the beginnings of the curvature of the earth. Even if the Bible were just written by men, don't you think they would have seen this? Just because science has discovered what God already knew, doesn't mean He didn't write the Bible through these men.

Why does man describe the rotation of the earth in the scheme of things, by these comments "sunrise" and "sunset"? The sun doesn't revolve or orbit around the earth does it? No, not at all, quite the opposite. So why does man use these terms if we fully understand that the earth revolves and orbits the sun, not the other way around.

Your questions are presuppositions that many have, that believe the Bible says the earth is flat. Who told you that the Bible says this?

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Man is corruptible and fallible, God isn't.

[geiste37]

Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep

Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in

The Ends of the Earth
Deu 13:7, Job 11:9, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Deut 28:49&64, 33:17, 1 Sam 2:10, Psa 2:8, Psa 19:4, Psa 22:27, Psa 33:13, Psa 33:14, Psa 48:10, Psa 59:13, Psa 61:2, Psa 65:5, Psa 72:8


Sky dome, geocentric Earth, etc.
Gen 1:6-7, Gen 1:14-17, Mark 13:24-25, Job 37:18, Prov 8:28, Job 22:14, 2 Chr 6:26, Mal 3:10, Rev 11:6, Gen 7:11-12, Psa 93:1, 1 Sam 2:8, Josh 10:12-13

[Tanya~]

geiste,

Did you have a question about these passages?

[dljc]

Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep

Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in

The Ends of the Earth
Deu 13:7, Job 11:9, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Deut 28:49&64, 33:17, 1 Sam 2:10, Psa 2:8, Psa 19:4, Psa 22:27, Psa 33:13, Psa 33:14, Psa 48:10, Psa 59:13, Psa 61:2, Psa 65:5, Psa 72:8


Sky dome, geocentric Earth, etc.
Gen 1:6-7, Gen 1:14-17, Mark 13:24-25, Job 37:18, Prov 8:28, Job 22:14, 2 Chr 6:26, Mal 3:10, Rev 11:6, Gen 7:11-12, Psa 93:1, 1 Sam 2:8, Josh 10:12-13

gieste,

I asked you "Who told you that the Bible says this?". Thank you for the clue Skydome, geocentric Earth. All I had to do was google that, and found my answer. Even I'm not allowed to link to an atheist site. Those scriptures you used above are verbatim from that site. It's too bad you will listen to a man, instead of searching for Him.

[geiste37]

gieste,

I asked you "Who told you that the Bible says this?". Thank you for the clue Skydome, geocentric Earth. All I had to do was google that, and found my answer. Even I'm not allowed to link to an atheist site. Those scriptures you used above are verbatim from that site. It's too bad you will listen to a man, instead of searching for Him.

A bit of info about me. At one point I was a Christian. I did search for him. I prayed to be given a sign of his existence. I spent 10 years actively praying and going to church. After 10 years with no answer, I finally started to look for answers myself. In doing so I only came up with more questions. To me, weather you share views with a man in this time or you read words written by men from thousands of years ago, we are all just listening to other people.

[geiste37]

Anyway, moving on. I've heard a lot of people who say that the English versions of the Bible are simply mistranslated. I've also noticed a lot of things that have been either left out of the Bible or found after its publishing (such as the book of Judas). Why does someone or a group of people simply find the most original version of the book and redo it? Some may say that it would be too much for one book. Then make it in volumes. Why does no person or group of people do this?