The Age of the Earth

[Old Earther]

To address what you have said (briefly, just to correct); the logical conclusion of my 'belief' would be God creating 'X' of a certain age, thereby creating 'false years' previous to the age created. This, however, does not violate any known laws of logic and is thus not a philosophical issue (as those years aren't really false). The idea of 'false memory' is an unrelated issue.

I never said it violates any laws of logic. I said it violates God's character. To create "false years" is to deceive. And false memory is not an unrelated issue, as both "false years" and false memory entail a false history.

[Athanasius]

I never said it violates any laws of logic. I said it violates God's character. To create "false years" is to deceive. And false memory is not an unrelated issue, as both "false years" and false memory entail a false history.

There are no false years, hence there is no comparison to false memory, ergo, no violation of God's character.

[Old Earther]

The nearest star in our galaxy- Centauri is 4.2 light years away 20 trillion miles
Distances within a galaxy are measured in kilo light yrs - 1,000 yrs
Distances between galaxies are measured in mega light years - 1 million yrs
The Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 mega light years away - 2.5 million years from us
The visible edge of the universe is measured in gigalight yrs. 1 billion
Quasars at the outer edge of the universe are 46.5 giga light yrs away ie 46.5 billion yrs away

Thats as far as we can see today!

Amazing indeed! Let us praise His name!

Therefore this universe according to
you scientific folk place it at least 50 billion years plus.

Oh boy. Has this light reached the Earth? No. We can only detect them through the best of telescopes.

Old Earther states - Don't you see what kind of gymnastics you have to do to cling to a literal reading of Genesis 1?

The gymnastics come in when one denies the Truth of the Word of God!

These gymnastics come in when one misinterprets the Bible and denies science in order to uphold their interpretation of the Bible. Besides, Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other (order of creation).

God declares He created everything with age, it is deception to declare otherwise.

Again, your literal reading of the creation accounts in Genesis is unjustifiable. Your argument reminds me of the flat-earther who argues that because the bible speaks of the "corners of the Earth" this means that science is wrong andthe earth really is flat!

[Old Earther]

There are no false years, hence there is no comparison to false memory, ergo, no violation of God's character.

But you just said the opposite:

the logical conclusion of my 'belief' would be God creating 'X' of a certain age, thereby creating 'false years' previous to the age created. This

What gives? Are you going to do a little dance for us?

[Studyin'2Show]

These gymnastics come in when one misinterprets the Bible and denies science in order to uphold their interpretation of the Bible. Besides, Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other (order of creation).

There is no need to deny science! Scientific data is what we can see and measure. It is what one extrapolates from that data that is in question. You extrapolate one thing, I extrapolate something different but the scientific data does not change. There is no need for denial.

God Bless!

[Old Earther]

There is no need to deny science!

There is a need for the YECs. you see, the data is that it takes 10 million years for starlight to travel to the Earth from a star 10 million light years away. The YECs must deny this data, but in so doing they are denying the truths of science.

[Athanasius]

But you just said the opposite:

What gives? Are you going to do a little dance for us?

I said the opposite if you don't quote me in full:

To address what you have said (briefly, just to correct); the logical conclusion of my 'belief' would be God creating 'X' of a certain age, thereby creating 'false years' previous to the age created. This, however, does not violate any known laws of logic and is thus not a philosophical issue (as those years aren't really false). The idea of 'false memory' is an unrelated issue.

If you do quote me in full, however, then I don't contradict myself, interesting how not taking ones words out of context works

[Old Earther]

If you do quote me in full, however, then I contradict myself

I agree.

To address what you have said (briefly, just to correct); the logical conclusion of my 'belief' would be God creating 'X' of a certain age, thereby creating 'false years' previous to the age created. This, however, does not violate any known laws of logic and is thus not a philosophical issue (as those years aren't really false). The idea of 'false memory' is an unrelated issue.

I'm sure you can see why I was confused by what you said.

So why aren't they false years?

[Studyin'2Show]

There is a need for the YECs. you see, the data is that it takes 10 million years for starlight to travel to the Earth from a star 10 million light years away. The YECs must deny this data, but in so doing they are denying the truths of science.

That's the point. The data does not have a time stamped on it. The information is extrapolated to mean this or that. No need to be so adversarial here. We simply disagree on the logical conclusion to that extrapolation.

God Bless!

[Athanasius]

I agree.

I'm sure you can see why I was confused by what you said.

So why aren't they false years?

Yeah, you must not have read my entire post... Only reason I can come up with, anyway.

As for why these years aren't false, simply, they don't exist. The appearance of years or age does not necessitate the requirement of those years or age to have passed. To conclude that because something is or appears to be of 'X' (age) and that it must display 'Y' (assumed years passed) but doesn't, and that this therefore constitutes false 'years', is logically invalid.

To use another comparison. If we assumed the YEC position on the creation of Adam (or Eve), we would assume him to have been created in what we would call 'adult' form. Would we then travel back to the Garden of Eden and accuse God of deceiving us because 'Adam' "had" 'X' years previous to his age that didn't exist? No, not at all. There's absolutely no issue (logically, philosophically or with God's character) with God creating a being of a certain (what we would call) 'age'.

[Old Earther]

The data does not have a time stamped on it.

I know.

The information is extrapolated to mean this or that.

I know.

No need to be so adversarial here.

Sorry if I've come across that way.

We simply disagree on the logical conclusion to that extrapolation.

Please explain.

[Old Earther]

xel naga,

Afterall, to conclude that because something is or appears to be of 'X' (age) and that it must display 'Y' (assumed years passed) but doesn't, and that this therefore constitutes false 'years', is logically invalid.

I'm sorry, but that isn't clear English. Perhaps you could express this thought in a syllogism?

So I take it that you don't think radars or sonars are accurate?

[Athanasius]

xel naga,

I'm sorry, but that isn't clear English. Perhaps you could express this thought in a syllogism?

So I take it that you don't think radars or sonars are accurate?

If it's not clear refer to the example, says the same thing. As for your sonar/radar comment, red herring and unrelated.

[Old Earther]

As for your sonar/radar comment, red herring and unrelated.

Let me explain. If God could make it appear that light has traveled a certain distance when it has not, then God could do the same with sound.

[Back2Front]

I think the age of the earth is unknown.

The age of mankind since the fall in the garden though is about 5700 years give or take a hundred or so.

Prior to the fall, who knows how long things were around including Adam and eve.

People seem to miss the fact that Adams numbered years are only relative to the moment of the first sin not to the day he was created.

The days between Adams creation and the fall in the garden are unknown. 1 Billion years could have passed for all we know as Adam was created to be eternal. Death/numbered years of Adam are relative to the moment of the first sin, not the moment he was created.