Once saved always saved : Amen Praise the Lord

[Yukerboy]

we can live as we choose because we are already forgiven of ALL our sins

Amen and absolutely. As Paul said we do that which we do not want to do. If we are led by the Spirit, then our spirit has no desire to sin, though the flesh does.

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

These are three actions taken at once at the time of salvation. You become justified, sanctified, and washed in one fell swoop.

Just as Paul points out that it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Then, Paul later in the same book says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law.

No one will follow all the law. All have sinned. Christ washes His own from all unrighteousness. All means all. Not just past, but all.

See my post earlier on what sin is. Trespassing the law. It is impossible to trespass the law when you are no longer under that law. Thus, showing why John tells us that it is impossible for one who abides in Christ to sin.

Yuke

[Veretax]

If as you say we need to confess/repent if we sin after we have already been saved, does that imply that there is a danger if we do sin and do not repent/confess?

Firstfruits

I thought I covered that in my last post. Sin hinders our relationship with God, and its not just breaking the Law either, its devoting our time to things we should not, buying things we should not etc.

I believe building with the wrong materials results in a loss of potential rewards. If I wasn't clear on that I'm sorry, but I felt it necessary in my last post to lay out how I believe the bible speaks on this matter. We are already forgiven from Sin, but that by no means means that Sin after Salvation does not have its consequences. We who believe are saved, the ultimate wage from Sin (as seen at the end of revelation) is taken away.

[Firstfruits]

I thought I covered that in my last post. Sin hinders our relationship with God, and its not just breaking the Law either, its devoting our time to things we should not, buying things we should not etc.

I believe building with the wrong materials results in a loss of potential rewards. If I wasn't clear on that I'm sorry, but I felt it necessary in my last post to lay out how I believe the bible speaks on this matter. We are already forgiven from Sin, but that by no means means that Sin after Salvation does not have its consequences. We who believe are saved, the ultimate wage from Sin (as seen at the end of revelation) is taken away.

If sin after salvation does not prevent us from entry into heaven which is our goal, then what consequences do we have to worry about as long as we get to Heaven?

Firstfruits

[Yukerboy]

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

[Veretax]

If sin after salvation does not prevent us from entry into heaven which is our goal, then what consequences do we have to worry about as long as we get to Heaven?

Firstfruits

Yukerboy already answered that for you

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

[Firstfruits]

Yukerboy already answered that for you

But that does not say anything about losing anything that would prevent us from remaining as we are, sinning or not sinning.

If we know that nothing we do will prevent us from getting to Heaven then once we are saved we have no need to change our life style because we will still go to Heaven.

Is there or is there not a reason to change?

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Thanks Yukerboy,

Since the only thing we have is to believe on the Lord and we will be saved, if after we have been saved we turn away from the truth, because we have already been saved will we still go to Heaven?

[Veretax]

Thanks Yukerboy,

Since the only thing we have is to believe on the Lord and we will be saved, if after we have been saved we turn away from the truth, because we have already been saved will we still go to Heaven?

See here's where I disagree. A changed life is evidence of a changed heart. a Life that is unchanged makes salvation suspect at least to those around us. Plus, I'm a firm believer that when we are recreated in Christ, he immediately begins to make repairs and break us of our many Sin habbits.. I've known folks who were addicts of one kind or another, and when they got saved, they suddenly were able to overcome those addictions. Many of them had tried before and failed. That to me is because of the power of Christ within us. Also, people that have this attitude, "I've got faith, I don't have to do nothing else." Are going to be rather embarrassed when Christ starts handing out rewards at the end, and they end up with nothing, but a single admissions pass.

But that does not say anything about losing anything that would prevent us from remaining as we are, sinning or not sinning.

If we know that nothing we do will prevent us from getting to Heaven then once we are saved we have no need to change our life style because we will still go to Heaven.

Is there or is there not a reason to change?

Firstfruits

Not according to Hebrews. Hebrews says it is impossible for someone who has "tasted of the heavenly gift" and turned away, to renew them again to repentance.

[Firstfruits]

See here's where I disagree. A changed life is evidence of a changed heart. a Life that is unchanged makes salvation suspect at least to those around us. Plus, I'm a firm believer that when we are recreated in Christ, he immediately begins to make repairs and break us of our many Sin habbits.. I've known folks who were addicts of one kind or another, and when they got saved, they suddenly were able to overcome those addictions. Many of them had tried before and failed. That to me is because of the power of Christ within us. Also, people that have this attitude, "I've got faith, I don't have to do nothing else." Are going to be rather embarrassed when Christ starts handing out rewards at the end, and they end up with nothing, but a single admissions pass.






Not according to Hebrews. Hebrews says it is impossible for someone who has "tasted of the heavenly gift" and turned away, to renew them again to repentance.

So then what does it mean to turn away? Would you agree that if you were not saved in the first place you could not turn away from something you never had?

Why would you renew someone to righteousness if they were never there in the first place?

Firstfruits

Firstfruits

[Veretax]

Here's the verse:

Heb 6:4-6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, F26 to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


What I am saying is if you Believe it possible to lose salvation, this verse seems pretty clear that for those who were once enlightened and had become partakers of the Holy Spirit, if they fall away to renew them again to Repentance. Notice the ending language: since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


This is why I've been saying Christ died once for the sins of man, and is sufficient for all sins in all time. Now, I will add that there are some who argue about the interpretation of this passage, but I think its pretty simple to understand.


If you are not saved, meaning as paul says you are slaves of Sin, how can you turn away from rigtheousness/salvation if in effect you are already turned away from it? We are running in circles here, and I don't think this is a difficult concept. If a person is not saved, they are slaves to sin.

Now, In the passage I cite from Hebrews, it says its impossible to renew such a person. I am of the belief that this sort of thing is quite rare in the church.

[Yukerboy]

I'll be honest, Hebrews 6:4-6 is the most difficult passage in the whole Bible for me to reconcile with.

The whole 1 John thing that most NOSAS bring up about a Christian not being able to sin, I have shown that John has said it is impossible for a Christian who is saved to sin. Can't be done. It is not that we shouldn't, but that we no longer have the ability. And Paul agrees with and proves that point.

And I know where Firstfruits is going. The whole License to sin mentality. We do have license to sin, to do as we so choose without any loss of salvation. But we, being a new creature in Christ, have had the old creature crucified. We no longer do that which we want to do, but we do that which we don't want to do.

As for Hebrews 6:4-6...I don't know, I don't have an answer, but I can not break down a foundation I have found to be in harmony with all of the New Testament save for this passage. Neither OSAS nor NOSAS has less faults than one passage. I will take that.

Yuke

[BroRog]

I made my point. Christ is the propitiation for all sins, however, it is appropriated conditionally. Only those who believe are able to appropriate this propitiation. When ewe believe, through faith, our past sins are forgiven. Both Peter and Paul make this clear. Where in Scripture do we find any statement saying future sins are pre forgiven? If they were, there would be no reason for John to say "if we confess our sins, He is faith and just to forgive us our sins. John is writing this to believers.

First, I'm not the only one to point out that all of our sins are in the future relative to the cross. So your distinction between past sins and future sins is really meaningless.

Second, your interpretation of 1John needs work because John is not giving a command, i.e. confess each sin as you do it. He is making a comparison between those who say they have no sin and those who confess their sins, which is descriptive not prescriptive.

So, what is at stake? Why do you insist that our future sins are not pre-forgiven? Is there some reason why you need this to be true?

[Butch5]

I'll be honest, Hebrews 6:4-6 is the most difficult passage in the whole Bible for me to reconcile with.

The whole 1 John thing that most NOSAS bring up about a Christian not being able to sin, I have shown that John has said it is impossible for a Christian who is saved to sin. Can't be done. It is not that we shouldn't, but that we no longer have the ability. And Paul agrees with and proves that point.

And I know where Firstfruits is going. The whole License to sin mentality. We do have license to sin, to do as we so choose without any loss of salvation. But we, being a new creature in Christ, have had the old creature crucified. We no longer do that which we want to do, but we do that which we don't want to do.

As for Hebrews 6:4-6...I don't know, I don't have an answer, but I can not break down a foundation I have found to be in harmony with all of the New Testament save for this passage. Neither OSAS nor NOSAS has less faults than one passage. I will take that.

Yuke

Well, if you have a hard time with Hebrews 6:4-6, what do you do with,

Hebrews 10:25-30 ( KJV ) 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

This person was sanctified by tghe blood of Christ, yet it says he has trampled the Son of God underfoot and counted the blood an unholy thing.

This alos present a problem with your idea that a Christian cannot sin.

How about this one,

Hebrews 10:38-39 ( KJV ) 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The writers says that He is not of them who draw back to perdition. Remeber Judas was a son of perdition.

How about this one,

2 Peter 2:1-2 ( KJV ) 1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

[BroRog]

Well, if you have a hard time with Hebrews 6:4-6, what do you do with,

Hebrews 10:25-30 ( KJV ) 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

This person was sanctified by tghe blood of Christ, yet it says he has trampled the Son of God underfoot and counted the blood an unholy thing.

This alos present a problem with your idea that a Christian cannot sin.

How about this one,

Hebrews 10:38-39 ( KJV ) 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The writers says that He is not of them who draw back to perdition. Remeber Judas was a son of perdition.

How about this one,

2 Peter 2:1-2 ( KJV ) 1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

If Paul was talking exclusively about himself, then why did he use the first person plural "we"? Why do you read the conditionals as emphatic imperatives and ignore statements like "we are convinced otherwise of you?"

[Butch5]

If Paul was talking exclusively about himself, then why did he use the first person plural "we"? Why do you read the conditionals as emphatic imperatives and ignore statements like "we are convinced otherwise of you?"

He wasn't speaking of just Himself, I didn't say He was speaiing of just Himself. However He is one of the the group "we."