Once saved always saved : Amen Praise the Lord

[Butch5]

Butch,

We can't simply find one verse that satisfies our understanding and ignore the rest of Scripture that shows ALL sins were forgiven at the cross. If Ro 3:25 were the only verse that spoke about forgiveness of sins, then we would be likely to conclude as you do, using only one verse. But what about all the other verses myself and others have directed you to that clearly do not support your opinion that only past sins are forgiven? You'll also notice that those verses that speak of ALL sins as forgiven, say nothing about repenting of them first.

And don't jump to the conclusion that means I don't believe we don't have to repent when we sin. Salvation is of the Lord, and it is not dependent upon our repentance, we repent because we have been saved, not to be saved or to remain saved.

What is John warning against in vs 8?

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Because no one is freed from sin; either from a sinful nature or from the sin that proceeds from the nature of evil. To claim we have no sin is to be deceived (to remain in unbelief), so John tells us to confess our sins instead of denying them because "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Why do we need a Savior if we deny we have sin? What would we need to be saved from, if we do not admit that we have sin?

Many blessings,
RW

Roger it is not Me that is ignoring Scripture. I have not ignored a single Scripture. You on the other hand have not dealt with Romans 3:25.

I said, all sin, refers to all kinds of sins. this fits perfectly with Romans 3:25. I also asked why John would tell His readers to confess their sins and receive forgiveness from God if their sins were already forgiven?

Your interpretation does not fit with Scripture. If all sins means future sins, then please explain why Paul said that Christ was a propitiation for sins that are past. And please explain why John would tell His readers to ask for forgiveness if their sin were already forgiven. Why does God have to cleanse them from all unrighteousness, if they have already been eternally cleansed from all unrighteousness?

[Butch5]

First no offense ever ..I mean trash coming from a fallen human being such as we are. Yes we are new creations in Christ however we ares till in a fallen nature and yes we can fall away but this in itself does not mean you loose your salvation. Look at Peter how close he was to our Lord Jesus yet when fear came he deny our lord not once but three times.
god knows how very weak we are this is why he sent his Holy Spirit to reside in us. You are correct we are to confess our sins and be forgiven but even if we forget to do so their is a confessor inside us the Holy Spirit that will do this for us. Belive me in my whole heart I know where you are comming from, to obey God is a great thing, to follow God is a great thing, to be a servent of God is a great thing but greater than all these is the Grace our God has shown us. Once you are convicted and led bt the Holy Spirit to recieved Jesus Christ as your savior for the forgiveness of sins you have now ebetered into a new relationship with God never to go back. You may in your human form go back and even deny him but he willnever deny you you are his forever. When you turn your back on Jesus , Jesus is looking at your back when you turn around they Jesus is looking at you face to face hence the quality of the fellowship of Jesus is correctly by your works but the salvation is sealed forever and ever Amen

God Bless
Randy

I was not offended, I was just pointing out that God does not see our works as trash or filthy rags. And yes it is the grace of God that saves us. However a person can turn from God as I have shown. So many people think our works mean nothing, this is completely wrong. Let me ask you this question, it was Paul who said we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. My question then is this, Does Paul know that we saved by faith??? Let me assume you answer is yes. So, if Paul knows that we are saved by faith, why does He Say this?

Romans 2:4-10 ( KJV ) 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Paul says that everyone will be judged by their works and those who did good will get eternal life, those who do not do good do not get eternal life.

So Paul says we are not saved by works and He says we are saved by works, which is it. These two must be reconciled, we cannot have contradiction in the Scriptures. We must look at the context of these verses to determine what Paul is speaking of. So let's look at the fist one where He says we are not saved by works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ( KJV ) 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Ephesians 2:10-16 ( KJV ) 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

They, the Ephesians were afar off and outside the covenants of God. Christ brought them near, how? He broke down the partition, having abolished the enmity. what is the enmity? the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. The works that Paul is speaking of here is the works of the law, He is not speaking of good deeds, that is what we were created for. So Paul is saying here like He does else were that by the works of the law no flesh shall be saved.

Now, in contrast to this notice what Paul says in Romans 2, those who in continuance in well doing (good deeds) seek immortality and eternal life. So Paul says that God "will" judge everyone according to their deeds, those who have done good eternal life, those who have done evil, indignation and wrath. Jesus said the same thing.


Matthew 25:31-46 ( KJV ) 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[looking4jesus]

I don't think those that know OSAS for the lie it is would even come close to saying that "we lose our salvation with every little sin".

ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER

Because of the eternal purpose of God toward the objects of His love, because of His freedom to exercise grace toward the meritless on the ground of the propitiatory blood of Jesus Christ, because of the very nature of the divine gift of eternal life, because of the present and unending intercession and advocacy of Jesus Christ in heaven, because of the immutability of the unchangeable covenants of God, because of the regenerating, abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of all who are saved, we and all true believers everywhere, once saved shall be kept saved forever. God is a holy and righteous Father and that, since He cannot overlook the sin of His children, He will, when they persistently sin, chasten them and correct them in infinite love; but having undertaken to save them and keep them forever, apart from all human merit, He, who cannot fail, will in the end present every one of them faultless before the presence of His glory and conformed to the image of His Son.
(John 5:24; 10:28; 13:1; 14:16–17; 17:11; Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 6:19; Heb. 7:25; 1 John 2:1–2; 5:13; Jude 24)

God Bless
Randy

[Butch5]

As on many Bible topics, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, But God has showed me an angle on the once saved always saved issue, that I would like to share with all who will read this thread. To start with, let me say that there are many verses on the left side ( the side that says we can lose our salvation ) that I struggle with. But there are many verses on the right side ( or what I think is the right side, where I can't do anything to lose my salvation,Where I didn't do anything to earn my salvation, Not my works, But Jesus did the work for me, so to say that I can lose my salvation is to say that His works was not good enough for me, !!) that the other side can't answer either. Now here is the angle, I have heard from the left side many many times, that once we have called upon the Name of the Lord ( the key here is if we call upon the name of the Lord, we must then make Him Lord ) but even if we are saved and right before we are called home either way by the grave or the rapture, if we sin just before we are called home we can lose our salvation. IF this is true then would someone please explain the verses

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Now here is the question if we lose our salvation with every little sin, where does Chastisement come in, for if God kicks us out of the Family with every little sin, then there is no need for Him to reprove, rebuke and then chasten us, for we are not sons/daughters but bastards and we have no Father, and we only become sons of God through faith in our adoption by Jesus Christ our big Brother. Please do not over load this thread with all the verses you have, where you believe we can lose our salvation just please keep the thoughts you share to the answering to my one question. if we can lose our salvation by sinning after we come to His knowledge then where does the doctrine of chastisement come in???

Here I go I am saved, but I look at a woman with lust on my mind, that small little voice speaks up and says you know you really shouldn't think like that(reprove). But I keep looking then that voice becomes alot more stern I TOLD YOU YOU REALLY SHOULDN"T BE THINKING LIKE THAT!(rebuke) but this is really a good looking woman Lord, and You really did bless her. Bam here comes out the whip(chastisement), But by the whip I know that I am still one of His because whom He chastens He also loves For the Father chastens His children not the Lost.

Or here I go I look at a woman with lust on my mind, Bam I burn!! For the Father lied when He said those He chastens He also loves.

Now I don't mean to be so blunt here, but I know no other way to express this, it all comes down to our faith and where is, or whom is our faith in.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jesus is my Author and He is my Finisher of my faith, I didn't write my plan of salvation and I can't keep it. Thats why My faith needs to be In Jesus not in me.

Heb 11:6Butwithout faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes There is a calling for His Children to Live right, so if the righteousness has to exceed the righteousness of scribes and Pharisees , How will any ever enter into heaven? I plea the BLOOD, not my works

Keith,

The whole issue revolves not around what God can do, and not around a single sin here and there. The issue is turning from Christ. Salvation is lost in turning away from Christ. If we are in Christ, we are forgiven,


Romans 8:1 ( KJV ) 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


The problem is when one is no longer "in" Christ Jesus. The question that needs to be answered is this, can a person turn away from Christ? The Scriptures are clear on this, all of the Scriptures that you speak of saying you can lose your salvation deal with a person turning away from Christ.
God will never leave us, but He won't force us to stay. The places in Scripture that speak of losing your salvation are speaking of people leaving Christ. Paul says in several places, "if" you continue in the faith. In other words, if you don't turn away. Jesus says, he who endures to the end shall be saved. In other words, he who does not turn away. The writer of Hebrews says, we are Christ's house "if" we hold fast our confidence, in other words, if we don't turn away. God is faithful and He will keep His word, however, He will not make us stay against our will.

The verses that you quoted from Hebrews are just that. God chastens His children, as I said if you commit a sin, that does not mean you have been rejected. And you are not rejected every time you sin. You are rejected when you reject Christ.

[Vhayes]

II Corinthians 1
21-Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
22-who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

How does one become "unsealed" if God did the sealing? I believe you can quench the Spirit for He will not force you to do anything, When we grieve Him, He is silent but He is still there, in our heart.

[looking4jesus]

II Corinthians 1
21-Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
22-who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

How does one become "unsealed" if God did the sealing? I believe you can quench the Spirit for He will not force you to do anything, When we grieve Him, He is silent but He is still there, in our heart.

Exactly Gods seals unlike man made seasl neevr wear out!
The come with your own lifetime guarantee!!
God Bless
Randy

[Butch5]

ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER

Because of the eternal purpose of God toward the objects of His love, because of His freedom to exercise grace toward the meritless on the ground of the propitiatory blood of Jesus Christ, because of the very nature of the divine gift of eternal life, because of the present and unending intercession and advocacy of Jesus Christ in heaven, because of the immutability of the unchangeable covenants of God, because of the regenerating, abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of all who are saved, we and all true believers everywhere, once saved shall be kept saved forever. God is a holy and righteous Father and that, since He cannot overlook the sin of His children, He will, when they persistently sin, chasten them and correct them in infinite love; but having undertaken to save them and keep them forever, apart from all human merit, He, who cannot fail, will in the end present every one of them faultless before the presence of His glory and conformed to the image of His Son.
(John 5:24; 10:28; 13:1; 14:16–17; 17:11; Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 6:19; Heb. 7:25; 1 John 2:1–2; 5:13; Jude 24)

God Bless
Randy

Who is the author? Why should we believe what He says? What are his credentials? You could post many more passages like that, but they're just someone's opinion. What credentials does he have that we should pay attention to what He says?

Even more importantly, please tell me why it is that I should put my eternal life into what he says. Suppose I follow Him and he is wrong, what happens to me???????

He says God saves us apart from all human effort, so suppose I do nothing my whole life and then at the judgment Jesus says how come you didn't feed the poor, and visit the sick and widows, how come you didn't clothe the naked? And I say because this guy said I didn't have to. What do you think Jesus is going to say????



Matthew 25:31-46 ( KJV ) 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


Romans 2:2-10 ( KJV ) 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

My friend, whenever you see anyone that says your deeds don't matter, run.

[Butch5]

II Corinthians 1
21-Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,
22-who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

How does one become "unsealed" if God did the sealing? I believe you can quench the Spirit for He will not force you to do anything, When we grieve Him, He is silent but He is still there, in our heart.

You are correct, he will not force you to do anything, including staying with Him if you chose not to. You are sealed, yes, but If you want out God will allow you to go.

[Butch5]

Exactly Gods seals unlike man made seasl neevr wear out!
The come with your own lifetime guarantee!!
God Bless
Randy

It is guaranteed on God's part, however He does not force one to stay.

[Vhayes]

That I disagree with. But, believe as you will. This is an issue I refuse to argue or debate. I will tell you what I believe and why but each person must come to their own understanding in their own way and in God's time.

Romans 8

38-For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39-nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe I am one of those "created things".

[Thaddaeus]

Can you show a single Scripture that says future sins are preforgiven???

Mr 3:28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:


all means past present and future, there's the one verse you ask for

[Vhayes]

Which sins of yours or mine were past when Jesus said, "It is finished"?

[Butch5]

Mr 3:28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:


all means past present and future, there's the one verse you ask for

Keith, as I pointed out if all in this verse means past present and future, you have universalism because it says all sins will be forgiven unto the sons of men.

Can you please reconcile this with Romans 3:25,

Romans 3:25 ( KJV ) 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

If all sins means all kinds of sin then we have no problem.

Also notice Jesus said all sins will be forgiven, He didn't say all sins will be forgiven the moment you believe.

[Butch5]

Which sins of yours or mine were past when Jesus said, "It is finished"?

When you believe your past sins are forgiven.

[Vhayes]

Butch, Jesus paid the price for ALL the sins of the world, It isn't about sin any longer, it's about whether or not you accept the gift of salvation.

I Timothy 4
10-For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

The gift is ineffective if it isn't accepted.