"Speaking In Tongues" shall cease

[Colight]

Your entire post denies the POWER of God in and through the lives of faithful Christians.

We have the same Spiritual Life Christ used on earth, the SAME mechanics that carried Christ on the Cross we have.

Yet your focus is on some tongues issue, so that Christians can act like a bunch emotional Kids in Church where they should be in bible study...

Exactly Who is focused on the Power of God again?

[Colight]

Reminds me of...having a form of godliness but denying its power. I've also noticed that Colight hasn't offered any exegetic proof of his claims that the perfect is the Bible up in the thread, That which is perfect.

W

Nor will I..
I saw how your last one on women speaking went.

[Slug1]

We have the same Spiritual Life Christ used on earth, the SAME mechanics that carried Christ on the Cross we have.

Yet your focus is on some tongues issue, so that Christians can act like a bunch emotional Kids in Church where they should be in bible study...

Exactly Who is focused on the Power of God again?

Discipled Christians do NOT act like the Corinthians. Undisciplined Christians... DO.

If you keep saying any and all do, then how would Paul react to your opinion? He corrected the Corinthians of their exercising of that gift and then concluded the instruction by telling the Body of Christ NOT to prevent the speaking of tongues.

Your continued accusation that any Christian who speaks in tongues makes them childish... reveals your heart for brothers and sisters in Christ.

[Watchman]

Nor will I..
I saw how your last one on women speaking went.

What meaneth that? The study on women speaking comes directly from scripture and is ongoing. In fact, I've been moving rather hurriedly through some of the background material in that thread in order to accomodate your wishes of reaching the pertinent NT passages...and am almost there.

If you have credible arguments, or refutation, to what I posted re: the perfect, then are you not duty bound as my brother in Christ to show it to me? And if you have credible, exegetic evidence--which you have yet to supply sans your own opinions and assumptions--that the perfect is the Bible, are you afraid to post it? Just curious. You mix your opinion in very liberally with scripture and you've come to a discussion board...why, then, are you avoiding some discussions?

Andy

[Colight]

then TOLD the Body of Christ NOT to prevent the speaking of tongues.

As I have Covered with you twice before..
In that day that was the correct thing for Paul to say to them.
In This day, it would nt be correct.

Your continued accusation that any Christian who speaks in tongues makes them childish... reveals your heart for brothers and sisters in Christ.

It is Paul's words NOT MINE!!!

Again, it is PAUL who stated..

1 cor 13
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child(Tongues), think like a child( gift of prophesy) , reason like a child( gift of knowledge); when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

With the Bible here.... the life of acting like a Child has come to a end.

Therefore tongues , gift of prophesy, gift of knowledge.. are all compared to being Childish, Immature.

[Watchman]

With the Bible here.... the life of acting like a Child has come to a end. Therefore tongues , gift of prophesy, gift of knowledge.. are all compared to being Childish, Immature.

Sooo, you draw a flawed conclusion from a faulty, assumptive premise.......and expect it will automatically be accepted? You cannot and have not proven that the Bible is the perfect. Until you do, you are spitting into the wind. Who taught you that stuff, anyway? A careful, prayerful examination of 1 Corinthians would never lead anyone to that conclusion. Why on earth would Paul tell the Corinthians they are acting immaturely, then tell them when the Bible comes (in a couple or three hundred years after a council of folks decides exactly what it is), that they would no longer need their childish ways. That would be condemning them to immaturity. Sheesh.

W

[Colight]

then are you not duty bound as my brother in Christ to show it to me?

Heh... saved7 (#128) would just say that is my pride coming out .. And I would hate for you to feel I am above you.. and God forbid if I actually feel I am right about a point or two.

Now you are telling me I am duty bound..

[Slug1]

1 cor 13
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child(Tongues), think like a child( gift of prophesy) , reason like a child( gift of knowledge); when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

With the Bible here.... the life of acting like a Child has come to a end.

Therefore tongues , gift of prophesy, gift of knowledge.. are all compared to being Childish, Immature.

Colight... if you read these scriptures where Paul talks about HOW he presently speak and ALSO sings in tongues... how are YOU to balance the context of the scriptures in total.

SO I'm gonna show you where Paul informs us that he presently continues to speaks and sing in tongues and also plans to CONTINUE speaking and singing in tongues.

1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. ² And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ³ And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,^[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

1 Cor 14:¹⁴ For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. ¹⁵ What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

v¹⁸I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

So the question is... is Paul double-minded and beaten around like a wave on the ocean that he would say speaking in tongues is childish in one breath and in the next, THANK GOD that he speaks in tongues?

OR... is your understanding of a single scripture when NOT in the context of the scriptures... in error?

If you take that ONE SINGLE scripture, remove it from context, then you are right!

If you balance that ONE SINGLE scripture in context with the full meaning of what God is using Paul to teach the Body of Christ... you are not right.

So, are you gonna hold to YOUR opinion of WHAT you want that ONE SINGLE scripture to mean when you remove it from it's contextual placement in the scriptures... or are you gonna place that ONE SINGLE scripture BACK into it's proper place and see that Paul must mean something else because he is telling us that he speaks in tongues, he sings in tongues, he THANKS GOD that he is given this gift and then he even concludes his discipleship of the Corinthians that they are NOT TO PREVENT the speaking of tongues.

So does the truth of scripture really line up with your opinion???

v²⁰ Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

This is the context of the other verse you pulled away from the context of God's truth and turned it into what YOU want to believe.

Paul is talking about the present understanding of the Corinthians as childish... it's not about talking in tongues is childish (as you say base don a single scripture removed from context), it's ABOUT HOW they lack the proper discipline to PROPERLY speak in tongues in an ORDERLY manner and they don't understand the PURPOSE of tongues to be of edification. All they do with the gift is "SHOW IT OFF"... THAT is what is childish!!!!

It's not childish THAT they speak in tongues (as you say), it's childish in the MANNER in which they speak in tongues.

This is the same problem today... in MANY churches all throughout the entire Body of Christ all over the world.

Which is why, are you gonna stick to your belief or are you gonna submit to the truth of scripture and help correct and disciple today's Christians who are childish in their USAGE of tongues?

[Watchman]

If you believe I'm wrong and have proof of it and do not show me...then you have erred. You are simply dodging a serious study. It is as simple as that. If you're right and are able to show me that you are right without mixing in your opinions, then I'll gladly thank you and change my pov. I'm not above changing as the Lord grows me. In fact, I daresay that if anyone who believes exactly now as they did a few years ago, then that person is not growing. You've given no cogent reason why you refuse to engage on the perfect in a thread of its own. Are you simply here to waste the time of others?

Andy

I hope that you will seek the Lord to rid you of the religious spirit that is clouding your sight.

[Watchman]

if you read these scriptures where Paul talks about HOW he presently speak and ALSO sings in tongues... how are YOU to balance the context of the scriptures in total.

SO I'm gonna show you where Paul informs us that he presently continues to speaks and sing in tongues and also plans to CONTINUE speaking and singing in tongues.

1 Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. ² And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ³ And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,^[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

1 Cor 14:¹⁴ For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. ¹⁵ What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

v¹⁸I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

So the question is... is Paul double-minded and beaten around like a wave on the ocean that he would say speaking in tongues is childish in one breath and in the next, THANK GOD that he speaks in tongues?

OR... is your understanding of a single scripture when NOT in the context of the scriptures... in error?

If you take that ONE SINGLE scripture, remove it from context, then you are right!

If you balance that ONE SINGLE scripture in context with the full meaning of what God is using Paul to teach the Body of Christ... you are not right.

So, are you gonna hold to YOUR opinion of WHAT you want that ONE SINGLE scripture to mean when you remove it from it's contextual placement in the scriptures... or are you gonna place that ONE SINGLE scripture BACK into it's proper place and see that Paul must mean something else because he is telling us that he speaks in tongues, he sings in tongues, he THANKS GOD that he is given this gift and then he even concludes his discipleship of the Corinthians that they are NOT TO PREVENT the speaking of tongues.

So does the truth of scripture really line up with your opinion???

Amen. Opinions come and go...but the truth of the Lord doesn't change. This entire fiasco of an interpretation that tongues will cease when the Bible arrives on the scene is a house of doctrinal cards that comes tumbling down when one considers the context and balance of scripture.

W

[Slug1]

Amen. Opinions come and go...but the truth of the Lord doesn't change. This entire fiasco of an interpretation that tongues will cease when the Bible arrives on the scene is a house of doctrinal cards that comes tumbling down when one considers the context and balance of scripture.

W

Hooah, I even just made an edit to that post to point it out even stronger in the truth of scripture.

[Saved7]

Colight, I am certain you know full well that I am not comparing the gifts with being equal with God; I am merely using a spiritual example that even you should be able to see. However, since you choose to play the devil's advocate with your accusations about my priorities, I will only say this; I am responsible for what I say, but I am NOT responsible for your interpretation. If you choose to misinterpret God's Word in light of all that everyone has said to you, then who am I to expect you to properly interpret my fallible words? That being said, I will let you to your own ways, I hope you eventually see what you are missing, so you no longer miss out on the joy of knowing God and operating in the gifts He gives.

[Brother Mark]

How can tongues be over when Paul states that

1 Cor 13:10-12
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face
NASU

We will see face to face when that which is perfect has come. As an example of what seeing face to face means, Paul uses himself as an example:

1 Cor 13:12
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
NASU

So when someone knows as well as they are known, then the gift of tongues will have ceased.

[Colight]

How can tongues be over when Paul states that

1 Cor 13:10-12
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face


NASU

We will see face to face when that which is perfect has come. As an example of what seeing face to face means, Paul uses himself as an example:

1 Cor 13:12
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
NASU

So when someone knows as well as they are known, then the gift of tongues will have ceased.

Scripture is also like a mirror that we use too to Check our selves..
James 1:23-25

23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty( Bible ), and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Oh My and look at this too....

my... my....

Our little Friend "the perfect " is here too in its gender neutral...teleios..
The same teleios.. that appears in 1 Corinthians 13:10...

So It seems in the early Church...they would call the completed Scripture,
the perfect or the complete... and they would compare its use to a mirror.

It also Seems that After the writing of 1 Corinthians and before the writing of James.
Tongues ceased!!!
Because JAMES did not have a LICK to say about TONGUES!!!
And he referred to "the perfect" as being virtually complete, for instead of a cloudy mirror, it was now a excellent mirror to use to judge ones self.
Maybe James did have something to say about tongues...

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.


Also here is another note...

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Another reference, with the result that the man of God maybe Perfect ( complete ), thru scripture..
Now only something that is complete can train men to that same completeness.
Again this was written way after 1 Corinthians..( Which looked forward to having the perfect)
Also there is NOT one peep of TONGUES in 2 Timothy..
IF it was such of HUGE importance..Why is it not mentioned?

My Mistake.... Paul did Mention Tongues in 2 Timothy...
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


...........

[Watchman]

Scripture is also like a mirror that we use too to Check our selves..
James 1:23-25

23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty( Bible ), and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Oh My and look at this too....

my... my....

Our little Friend "the perfect " is here too in its gender neutral...teleios..
The same teleios.. that appears in 1 Corinthians 13:10...

So It seems in the early Church...they would call the completed Scripture,
the perfect or the complete... and they would compare its use to a mirror.

It also Seems that After the writing of 1 Corinthians and before the writing of James.
Tongues ceased!!!
Because JAMES did not have a LICK to say about TONGUES!!!
And he referred to "the perfect" as being virtually complete, for instead of a cloudy mirror, it was now a excellent mirror to use to judge ones self.
Maybe James did have something to say about tongues...

James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.


Also here is another note...

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Another reference, with the result that the man of God maybe Perfect ( complete ), thru scripture..
Now only something that is complete can train men to that same completeness.
Again this was written way after 1 Corinthians..( Which looked forward to having the perfect)
Also there is NOT one peep of TONGUES in 2 Timothy..
IF it was such of HUGE importance..Why is it not mentioned?

My Mistake.... Paul did Mention Tongues in 2 Timothy...
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


...........

Well played, sir, well played...as far as eisegesis goes. You are simply superimposing your preconceived notion onto scripture, rather than interpreting, you are reading into scripture.