"Speaking In Tongues" shall cease

[Brett]

Not every one who heard Christ believed and he was standing right in front of them...

Perfect is referred to in Gender neutral.
Christ is referred to in gender male.

Greek: teleios

1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness

It is in the gender neutral;
Therefore it is referring to non-human.

Paul also lists that which is in part being knowledge and prophesy ; and states that it will be brought to completeness.
Thus it is referring to the completeness of Knowledge and prophesy;
This is the Bible.

With the Complete scripture there is no need for these partial gifts.

Of course not every person who saw Jesus believed in Him when He walked the earth. He came as a man and if everyone knew Him to be The Son of God it would have been impossible for him to die for our sins. I'm glad you know Biblical Greek but actually it's telos not teleios. The scripture we are discussing uses telos which means all coming to a end. The word teleios which is not used in this particular passage means to finish a work or a work coming to an end. The Baptist church has stood on that mistranslated word for so long nobody has bothered to bring it up for correction. For that matter we should actually call the Baptist denomination Dippers since the actual translation for the Greek Baptizo is to dip. You can be a First Dipper or a Freewill Dipper.

[Colight]

Of course not every person who saw Jesus believed in Him when He walked the earth. He came as a man and if everyone knew Him to be The Son of God it would have been impossible for him to die for our sins. I'm glad you know Biblical Greek but actually it's telos not teleios. The scripture we are discussing uses telos which means all coming to a end. The word teleios which is not used in this particular passage means to finish a work or a work coming to an end. The Baptist church has stood on that mistranslated word for so long nobody has bothered to bring it up for correction. For that matter we should actually call the Baptist denomination Dippers since the actual translation for the Greek Baptizo is to dip. You can be a First Dipper or a Freewill Dipper.

From my studies and research material I have on hand... teleios is the word used there.
Telos is a root word that teleios comes from but teleios is used in the passage of 1 Corinthians 13:10; And it comes to mean mature, of full age.
..
Since there is a immature reference in previous verses of prophecy and knowledge.
This is about the completeness of prophecy and knowledge, that completeness is contained in the Bible.
Since tongues was not part of 'being in part', when the 'complete' matured.
Tongues faded for they had a limited use and life span.


If you have a link to the study of Telos being used instead.. please reference it.

I am not a baptist, therefore I have no opinion on what they believe.

[Nobunaga]

Thread date circa 2008

no one ever resurrects my old threads........ wonder why ?

[Colight]

Some thing I am mulling over the Tongues thing.

Paul states...

1 cor 14
34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as he Law also says.

I guess that would mean that women would not have the legitimate gift of tongues since they are to keep silent in the Churches,
To state a women can have the gift of tongues would be in direct conflict with Gods word as the spirit moved Paul to write for them to be silent.

[-SEEKING-]

Thread date circa 2008

no one ever resurrects my old threads........ wonder why ?

Challenge accepted!!!!!

[awestruckchild]

Challenge accepted!!!!!

Lol!
I already looked. The pages didn't go back very far - 2011

[Nobunaga]

Challenge accepted!!!!!

This could be embarrassing....

[Tony N]

To me this explains the difference with those who do these to get into the emotionalism of the experience of this gift vs. the Holy Spirit bestowing this Gift on people to benefit the Body of Christ... show God's love for us.

As people allow the Holy Spirit to be in control and this Gift done in proper order... the sensational/emotional will go away and God's will, not man's emotion will guide church worship and in the case of Knowledge and Prophesy... church direction.

Whan emotionalism and sensationalism is the means, IMO it's false and any information provided by these three gifts will be false... thus no love is expressed cause it's not from God but from man.

Also, in context all this goes away once Jesus returns. Until then we just have to discern man's emulation of these gifts vs. God's bestowing of these Gifts.

Hi I am new on here.

I really like what you said. We have a similar problem to the thing you described in our locality. With a particular person, everything that emerges is being pushed along by tears or hysteria.

But it won't turn me into a cessationist, because i have seen and participated in spiritual gifts in proper order, many times. I know what a blessing they can be.

[Tony N]

[QUOTE=Brett;2830857]

Randy.... That which is perfect is the return of Jesus Christ. If he were refering to the Bible as being that which is perfect, Every person that hears the Word would believe in Jesus. When Jesus comes the second time everyone will know He is the true King and every knee will bend. Jesus is THE ONLY THING WHICH IS PERFECT.

You are correct. If the perfect were here, there would be no sin in the church, there would be no divisions or denominations. We ourselves would be perfected, indeed we would have been resurrected. Gifts of the spirit are essential, to guide the church along. We cannot always guarantee that the sermon being preached on a particular day was guided by God for every person present in their current situation. It may have just popped out of a lectionery (a church calendar for ruling what sermon to preach). God may have something particular to say to a person who is present. Whilst the sermon was talking about generous giving, God may want to challenge a person about their need for salvation, or the way they treat their wife. A timely word spoken by a spiritual member of the congregation could reveal a persn's own heart to them just in the nick of time. it can also convict an ungodly person to return or to God or a Sinner to repent.
Then we have the gift of healing. Do we want the sick to suffer in Satan's hands? You may say, if it is God's will I will not get better. If that were true, it would be a sin to go to a doctor. However, we know it is not true. That is why I believe that divine healing is for today.

[Ta-An]

Hi I am new on here.

.

Welcome Tony

[awestruckchild]

This could be embarrassing....

HAHA!
Is that embarrassment I see tattooed all over your face?
You guys are too funny!

[Watchman]

Some thing I am mulling over the Tongues thing.

Paul states...

1 cor 14
34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as he Law also says.

I guess that would mean that women would not have the legitimate gift of tongues since they are to keep silent in the Churches,
To state a women can have the gift of tongues would be in direct conflict with Gods word as the spirit moved Paul to write for them to be silent.

1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head...

Perhaps a new, or resurrected, thread re: women's role(s) in the church is in order??

blessings,

W

[Watchman]

Several have hit on the essence of the passage in the OP. Love is the key. Love is patient. Let patience have her perfect work, that we may be complete. When we are complete, then we are as Christ. Then we see Him face to face and know Him as He knows us. Then, and only then, will incomplete knowledge, tongues, and prophecy pass away.

blessings,

W

[awestruckchild]

Good luck telling women to be silent. My guess is you'll get more tongue than you care to hear.
This is just like what happens with the words of Jesus and scripture. If things appear to war with each other, we need to work on them so we are sure we have good understanding.
Paul also said there was no more male or female.

So instead of only focusing on one verse from Paul, how do we integrate them, the two together AND fit them with all Jesus said?

By the way, Saved7 posted a link to a very good teaching on men and women and the mess we get into over a few words from Paul.

[Colight]

Good luck telling women to be silent. My guess is you'll get more tongue than you care to hear.

So we should avoid seeking the truth, in order as not to offend a bunch of women?

In scripture..there is a natural order of things.
1 Tim 2
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

When it comes to the Church the men are to have the authority, that is the natural order.
To avoid that which is natural is in essence to rebel against God.
It would be no worse than for men to seek to lay with men for pleasure, that also is in violation of the natural order God has laid out.

This is just like what happens with the words of Jesus and scripture. If things appear to war with each other, we need to work on them so we are sure we have good understanding.

There really is no war, when one is in subjection to the commands given as to the order of the church, when mans or a womans pride and rebellion get in the mix. Then is when strife occurs.

Paul also said there was no more male or female. So instead of only focusing on one verse from Paul, how do we integrate them, the two together AND fit them with all Jesus said?

There was way more than one verse written on this issue..

If there is no male of female.. then why go to the problem of assigning gender roles? - that would be illogical.

Also back to my original point...

If women to to keep silent in the Church assembly, then it would be logical that they would not have the gift of tongues.