Tongues discussion moved from MiC

[VerticalReality]

Ok show me the scripture that says tongues will cease when we are perfected.
OK
God Bless
Randy

Okay . . .

First of all the verse you are referencing that says tongues will cease . . .

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

This passage is obviously comparing and contrasting love with that of prophecy, tongues and knowledge. While the latter three will fail or cease at some point, love will continue on and never fail. So, when will these things fail or cease? Let's continue reading . . .

1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

Why do we know in part and prophesy in part? Well, prophecy, knowledge and tongues are spiritual gifts. Unfortunately, we are not always tuned into the spirit. We have a flesh the battles against us receiving from the spirit. It's just as Paul states in Galatians 5:16-17

Galatians 5:16-17
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If we were able to walk by the spirit non-stop and never have the hinderance of the flesh then we would not just receive prophecy and so forth in part. We would receive it fully. When we are with the Lord we will not receive in part any longer. We will have full revelation then.

However, let us continue on and see when these gifts will no longer be necessary . . .

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

So, Paul tells us here that when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. What is "that which is in part"? That would be prophecy, tongues and knowledge. When that which is perfect has come then all those things which are in part will be done away. They will no longer be needed.

Now, immediately you have many folks who claim that the "that which is perfect" is the bible. They state that when the bible was canonized "that which is perfect" had arrived in the the completion of the Scriptures.

While I do believe that the Scriptures are inerrant and given by inspiration of God, Paul goes on in verse 12 to prove that the "that which is perfect" is not the bible. Let's have a look . . .

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Here Paul tells us that at the moment he only knows in part. Get that? Paul says that even he only knows in part. However, he then says that when "that which is perfect" has come then he will know just as he also is known. Now this presents a huge problem for those who claim that the bible is "that which is perfect" because Paul says here that he is going to see it. However, Paul never saw and witnessed the completion of the canonized bible. Parts of Scripture were not even written until after his death. So if Paul states that he is going to see "that which if perfect" he cannot be talking about the bible. However, he does tell us the context of what he is referencing . . .

1 Corinthians 13:10-11
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Now, after Paul tells us that those things which are in part will be done away when that which is perfect has come he immediately begins talking about himself in verse 11. He begins to discuss how when he grew from a child into a man he stopped doing those things he did as a child.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Here at the beginning of verse 12 Paul continues addressing himself and other Christians stating that we only see in a mirror dimly. What are we looking at in this mirror? Well, when you look in a mirror you see a reflection of yourself. However, he states that we only see this reflection dimly. Why? It is because we only know in part. When we look in this mirror we are seeing our spirit man dimly. Our spirit man has been perfected and is in the image of our Lord and Savior. He then states that when "that which is perfect" has come then we will see "face to face". He says that we will know just as we also are known. In other words, when "that which is perfect" has come then we will no longer just know in part but we will know fully. When "that which is perfect" has come then we will no longer be looking in this mirror dimly. We will see a reflection in that mirror that is completely clear. We will come face to face with that perfect spirit man that is seated in the heavenlies with Christ Jesus and has been resurrected in His image.

There are other Scriptures referring to this same thing . . .

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face,beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The reason we currently see in this mirror dimly is because our soul has not been perfected yet. Our mind, will and so forth still needs to be transformed back into the image of the Lord. We are going through a daily process of renewal known as sanctification. When we have been completely sanctified, then we will have seen that which is perfect face to face. We will be completed in Him . . .

This is the confidence that Paul spoke of here . . .

Philippians 1:3-6
I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As we can see here . . . God has begun a perfect work in us. However, this perfect work has not yet been completed. We are completed and perfected in spirit. However, in our body and soul we are not perfected. 1 Corinthians 13 is talking about this perfection. When we are perfected fully, we will no longer know in part. We will know just as we are known in the spirit.

So, until this perfection takes place we are still in need of prophecy, knowledge and tongues along with the rest of the gifts of the Spirit.

That which is perfect has come when we have been perfected and completed in Him.

[looking4jesus]

Okay . . .

First of all the verse you are referencing that says tongues will cease . . .

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

This passage is obviously comparing and contrasting love with that of prophecy, tongues and knowledge. While the latter three will fail or cease at some point, love will continue on and never fail. So, when will these things fail or cease? Let's continue reading . . .

1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

Why do we know in part and prophesy in part? Well, prophecy, knowledge and tongues are spiritual gifts. Unfortunately, we are not always tuned into the spirit. We have a flesh the battles against us receiving from the spirit. It's just as Paul states in Galatians 5:16-17

Galatians 5:16-17
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If we were able to walk by the spirit non-stop and never have the hinderance of the flesh then we would not just receive prophecy and so forth in part. We would receive it fully. When we are with the Lord we will not receive in part any longer. We will have full revelation then.

However, let us continue on and see when these gifts will no longer be necessary . . .

1 Corinthians 13:10
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

So, Paul tells us here that when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. What is "that which is in part"? That would be prophecy, tongues and knowledge. When that which is perfect has come then all those things which are in part will be done away. They will no longer be needed.

Now, immediately you have many folks who claim that the "that which is perfect" is the bible. They state that when the bible was canonized "that which is perfect" had arrived in the the completion of the Scriptures.

While I do believe that the Scriptures are inerrant and given by inspiration of God, Paul goes on in verse 12 to prove that the "that which is perfect" is not the bible. Let's have a look . . .

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Here Paul tells us that at the moment he only knows in part. Get that? Paul says that even he only knows in part. However, he then says that when "that which is perfect" has come then he will know just as he also is known. Now this presents a huge problem for those who claim that the bible is "that which is perfect" because Paul says here that he is going to see it. However, Paul never saw and witnessed the completion of the canonized bible. Parts of Scripture were not even written until after his death. So if Paul states that he is going to see "that which if perfect" he cannot be talking about the bible. However, he does tell us the context of what he is referencing . . .

1 Corinthians 13:10-11
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Now, after Paul tells us that those things which are in part will be done away when that which is perfect has come he immediately begins talking about himself in verse 11. He begins to discuss how when he grew from a child into a man he stopped doing those things he did as a child.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Here at the beginning of verse 12 Paul continues addressing himself and other Christians stating that we only see in a mirror dimly. What are we looking at in this mirror? Well, when you look in a mirror you see a reflection of yourself. However, he states that we only see this reflection dimly. Why? It is because we only know in part. When we look in this mirror we are seeing our spirit man dimly. Our spirit man has been perfected and is in the image of our Lord and Savior. He then states that when "that which is perfect" has come then we will see "face to face". He says that we will know just as we also are known. In other words, when "that which is perfect" has come then we will no longer just know in part but we will know fully. When "that which is perfect" has come then we will no longer be looking in this mirror dimly. We will see a reflection in that mirror that is completely clear. We will come face to face with that perfect spirit man that is seated in the heavenlies with Christ Jesus and has been resurrected in His image.

There are other Scriptures referring to this same thing . . .

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face,beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The reason we currently see in this mirror dimly is because our soul has not been perfected yet. Our mind, will and so forth still needs to be transformed back into the image of the Lord. We are going through a daily process of renewal known as sanctification. When we have been completely sanctified, then we will have seen that which is perfect face to face. We will be completed in Him . . .

This is the confidence that Paul spoke of here . . .

Philippians 1:3-6
I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine making request for you all with joy, for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As we can see here . . . God has begun a perfect work in us. However, this perfect work has not yet been completed. We are completed and perfected in spirit. However, in our body and soul we are not perfected. 1 Corinthians 13 is talking about this perfection. When we are perfected fully, we will no longer know in part. We will know just as we are known in the spirit.

So, until this perfection takes place we are still in need of prophecy, knowledge and tongues along with the rest of the gifts of the Spirit.

That which is perfect has come when we have been perfected and completed in Him.

Understood however your still making a big leap trying to connect that passage where tongues will cease with a perfections. That is noting but a big assumptions on your part.
God Bless
Randy

[VerticalReality]

Understood however your still making a big leap trying to connect that passage where tongues will cease with a perfections. That is noting but a big assumptions on your part.
God Bless
Randy

I don't see the assumption. I laid out what the Scriptures say. What part is the assumption? Our perfection isn't the assumption. I gave you clear Scripture stating we are in need of being perfected. Tongues isn't an assumption. The Scriptures clearly say they will cease.

What is an assumption?

[looking4jesus]

I don't see the assumption. I laid out what the Scriptures say. What part is the assumption? Our perfection isn't the assumption. I gave you clear Scripture stating we are in need of being perfected. Tongues isn't an assumption. The Scriptures clearly say they will cease.

What is an assumption?

linking up the 2 one has nothing to do with the other.
Paul was speaking about the early church
Back to my orginal point most if not all tongue speaking today is false brought on by high emotions and also by Satan deceptons.
There simply is no need for speaking in tongues today but there was a need for all the gifts of the spirit for the early church think about it we are speaking about the first few churches in the world surely the need for prophecy and speaking in tongues was there. They we front runners building the new Church. Today you simply have some people where the word of God and his promise of our salvation is not enough they want more they want a feeling and that is where you get in trouble seeking experiences is not of God.
Ok enough said.
God Bless
Randy

[VerticalReality]

linking up the 2 one has nothing to do with the other.

What two things have nothing to do with each other?

Can you please provide some Scripture backing what you are stating. You have made the claim the tongues are now of the devil but have no Scripture supporting your claim. You are claiming that tongues have ceased but have not provided a biblical assertion for this claim. It would really help others to see where you are coming from if you would lay out for us how you have arrived at such a position.

Paul was speaking about the early church

So the rest of Paul's writings we can only apply to the early church as well? What are we supposed to live by today?

Back to my orginal point most if not all tongue speaking today is false brought on by high emotions and also by Satan deceptons.

So why have you not taken the opportunity here in this thread to show everyone how you have come to this conclusion? What Scriptures do you use to support this? How did the early church know they were speaking by the power of the Spirit and not the power of the devil?

There simply is no need for speaking in tongues today but there was a need for all the gifts of the spirit for the early church think about it we are speaking about the first few churches in the world surely the need for prophecy and speaking in tongues was there.

Why wouldn't we need them? I don't think you or anyone can claim to have perfect knowledge and understanding. Therefore, you still know in part just as the Scriptures in 1 Corinthians 13 declare.

They we front runners building the new Church. Today you simply have some people where the word of God and his promise of our salvation is not enough they want more they want a feeling and that is where you get in trouble seeking experiences is not of God.

I've already shown you where the Word of God is not the "that which is perfect" spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13. So, the bible is not what brought about the end of prophecy, knowledge and tongues.

Ok enough said.

Not really . . . you haven't really said anything yet about how you have arrived at these conclusions, and you haven't given anyone in this thread a reason to believe the position you are preaching. Aren't we to preach from God's Word? What Scriptures are you using to arrive at these conclusions? We cannot simply accept what you say simply because you claim it is true. We need to see where the Word of God backs your position. So far you have not provided us with sufficient evidence to accept your claim.

I've provided you with an abundant amount of Scriptures from our Lord's Word to us backing what I have preached. I would expect the same in return from you. Otherwise, we will have to reject this notion that prophecy, knowledge and tongues are no longer for today.

[looking4jesus]

What two things have nothing to do with each other?

Can you please provide some Scripture backing what you are stating. You have made the claim the tongues are now of the devil but have no Scripture supporting your claim. You are claiming that tongues have ceased but have not provided a biblical assertion for this claim. It would really others to see where you are coming from if you would lay out for us how you have arrived at such a position.



So the rest of Paul's writings we can only apply to the early church as well? What are we supposed to live by today?




So why have you not taken the opportunity here in this thread to show everyone how you have come to this conclusion? What Scriptures do you use to support this? How did the early church know they were speaking by the power of the Spirit and not the power of the devil?



Why wouldn't we need them? I don't think you or anyone can claim to have perfect knowledge and understanding. Therefore, you still know in part just as the Scriptures in 1 Corinthians 13 declare.



I've already shown you where the Word of God is not the "that which is perfect" spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13. So, the bible is not what brought about the end of prophecy, knowledge and tongues.



Not really . . . you haven't really said anything yet about how you have arrived at these conclusions, and you haven't given anyone in this thread a reason to believe the position you are preaching. Aren't we to preach from God's Word? What Scriptures are you using to arrive at these conclusions? We cannot simply accept what you say simply because you claim it is true. We need to see where the Word of God backs your position. So far you have not provided us with sufficient evidence to accept your claim.

I've provided you with an abundant amount of Scriptures from our Lord's Word to us backing what I have preached. I would expect the same in return from you. Otherwise, we will have to reject this notion that prophecy, knowledge and tongues are no longer for today.

I still hold the belief that speaking in tongues today has cease so ha the author who wrote this piece below.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command that God gave through the Apostle Paul, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two — or at the most three — should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in submission to 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him/her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they didn’t have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the form it did in the New Testament despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased, or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

[VerticalReality]

I still hold the belief that speaking in tongues today has cease so ha the author who wrote this piece below.

Just a reminder, if you are going to be referencing the work of other people according to board rules you need to cite the source and where you found it.

At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command that God gave through the Apostle Paul, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two — or at the most three — should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in submission to 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

So this person you are referencing is stating that if the gift of tongues was truly active today then it would only take place if it is in total agreement with Scripture. According to this source if the gift of tongues was truly given today then there would be nobody speaking out of order. There would only be two or three speaking at a time. There would be no confusion and so on. Tell me, if this is true what is the point of Paul giving this instruction in 1 Corinthians 14 to begin with? If it is a guarantee that the true gift of tongues by the Spirit is going to be in agreement with this person's interpretation stated above then there would be no need for Paul to give the instruction he gave in 1 Corinthians 14. The truth of the matter is that you can have disorder in a service, too many folks speaking in tongues and so on with the actual gift of tongues still being from the Lord. The gift is still from God . . . the order in which it is used is up to the person operating in it.

God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him/her to communicate with a person who speaks another language.

He can give the gift even if there is noone speaking another language to preach to. Otherwise there would be no need for Paul to state in 1 Corinthians 14 that they should speak those tongues to themselves if there is no interpreter. This person you are referencing is placing qualifications on the gift of tongues that the Scriptures do not give.

Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they didn’t have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this.

Sure He is. There are countless testimonies to this fact. Some are just choosing to remain in unbelief and not accept those testimonies. Instead, they are choosing to remain in the belief that they have been taught that states these gifts are no longer for today.

Tongues does not seem to occur today in the form it did in the New Testament despite the fact that it would be immensely useful.

It surely does still operate that way. The writer you are referencing is using the error of some and acting as if this is the same all across the board. This couldn't be further from the truth. This is the same as me saying that all Church of Christ folks feel it is against the Lord's Word to play musical instruments in church. Not all folks who affiliate themselves with the Church of Christ denomination agree or practice this belief. However, it would be mighty sad and wrong if I were to paint the entire denomination with the same broad brush.

The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased, or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.

As I pointed out, even the Corinthians did not use this gift in agreement with Paul's instructions, which is why he had to give those instructions to begin with. So to say that tongues have ceased simply because poeple use the gift in error is just flatout wrong and contrary to the very Word of God that this individual you are referencing claims to follow.

[ears2hear]

Why would God have a man, woman, or child, stand up in an all English speaking church in the USA, and prophesy in a foreign language they can't understand, nor can anybody else understand? What purpose does this serve? Talk about a misunderstanding of spiritual gifts. No way this is Biblical. The church in Corinth was a port city with people visiting it from all cultures and many different languages being spoken, hence the need for interpreters. What Pentecostals today are doing is not from Satan, it's just something they have been taught to do, and it simply comes from the flesh. It's not evil, but it's also not genuine.

Thank you for posting this lamplighter.

My dh and I were involved in a Pentecostal church for most of our christian walk. We had both been prayed over to "receive the Holy Spirit" () and of course were immediatly expected to speak in tongues. It didn't happen then and it hasn't happened yet. We both beat ourselves up quite a bit regarding this issue. Sheesh....what on earth were we doing wrong that God would not gift us with this?! I mean...we kept getting told that this was a lesser gift...so why not?

Before we even started researching in books and internet, we prayed. Imagine...we prayed first for God's revelation on why we were not receiving this gift.

What we believe He revealed to us was exactly what you have posted in a nut shell. We are Believers. We received the Holy SPirit (our helper) the day we came to the saving knowlege of Jesus Christ. There are indeed active gifts of the Spirit today...however...if I may add just a little bit more to your post...?

Biblical tongues is a super natural gift given by God to bring those who do not know Him to the saving knowlege of Christ and what He did for us on the cross. It is to be used when those who are seeking or are lost can not understand what is being said..hence Missionaries etc.

Now, I have heard God speak through man. IN MY LANGUAGE...ENGLISH. I have heard a man of God speak during worship service things that have directly impacted me, challenged me, encouraged me and convicted me. All of this was done in english. It was spoken for the entire congregation to hear...and I do believe that it was God speaking through this man. It brought honor and glory to God. It confirmed things in my spirit that needed to be confirmed.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is thank you for posting this...(sorry, said it again).

[looking4jesus]

Why would God have a man, woman, or child, stand up in an all English speaking church in the USA, and prophesy in a foreign language they can't understand, nor can anybody else understand? What purpose does this serve? Talk about a misunderstanding of spiritual gifts. No way this is Biblical. The church in Corinth was a port city with people visiting it from all cultures and many different languages being spoken, hence the need for interpreters. What Pentecostals today are doing is not from Satan, it's just something they have been taught to do, and it simply comes from the flesh. It's not evil, but it's also not genuine.

Exactly what does it serve. First of all you walk in a penetecostal church and you will son hear people speaking what I call Giberish. Now it is clear in the Bible that the unknown tongue is to be used in private not in a assembly thats the first clue something is very wrong.
Secondly you cannot say it is not of Satan or evil speaking in tongues that are unknown have been used by deomons for centuries. My belief Satan gets the ball rolling and then the person want these spiritual highs(fixes)
continue the process on their own. When I would visit these types of Chuches I would always walk away with a creeping feeling like exiting a horror moive and th movie stay with you.
God Bless
Randy

[VerticalReality]

Exactly what does it serve.

As the Scriptures say, it edifies the one speaking . . . which is a good thing.

First of all you walk in a penetecostal church and you will son hear people speaking what I call Giberish.

Which is out of order, but this does not mean that the tongues are of the devil.

Now it is clear in the Bible that the unknown tongue is to be used in private not in a assembly thats the first clue something is very wrong.

Which indicates a good purpose for the gift still being given. If they are to be spoken in private to edify the speaker this is a good thing. Therefore, the gift still serves a purpose even when others are not around who speak a different language.

Secondly you cannot say it is not of Satan or evil speaking in tongues that are unknown have been used by deomons for centuries.

Demons have even used the Word of God through false teachers to bring division and other such nonsense as well, but I'm not going to throw the bible out just because it has been used inappropriately.

My belief Satan gets the ball rolling and then the person want these spiritual highs(fixes)
continue the process on their own.

Yet no evidence to suggest this is what is going on in these churches.

When I would visit these types of Chuches I would always walk away with a creeping feeling like exiting a horror moive and th movie stay with you.
God Bless
Randy

Paul indicated that many who visited the Corinthian church left feeling the same way. However, that did not mean that the tongues the Corinthians were speaking were of the devil.

[Lamplighter]

Thank you for posting this lamplighter.

My dh and I were involved in a Pentecostal church for most of our christian walk. We had both been prayed over to "receive the Holy Spirit" () and of course were immediatly expected to speak in tongues. It didn't happen then and it hasn't happened yet. We both beat ourselves up quite a bit regarding this issue. Sheesh....what on earth were we doing wrong that God would not gift us with this?! I mean...we kept getting told that this was a lesser gift...so why not?

Before we even started researching in books and internet, we prayed. Imagine...we prayed first for God's revelation on why we were not receiving this gift.

What we believe He revealed to us was exactly what you have posted in a nut shell. We are Believers. We received the Holy SPirit (our helper) the day we came to the saving knowlege of Jesus Christ. There are indeed active gifts of the Spirit today...however...if I may add just a little bit more to your post...?

Biblical tongues is a super natural gift given by God to bring those who do not know Him to the saving knowlege of Christ and what He did for us on the cross. It is to be used when those who are seeking or are lost can not understand what is being said..hence Missionaries etc.

Now, I have heard God speak through man. IN MY LANGUAGE...ENGLISH. I have heard a man of God speak during worship service things that have directly impacted me, challenged me, encouraged me and convicted me. All of this was done in english. It was spoken for the entire congregation to hear...and I do believe that it was God speaking through this man. It brought honor and glory to God. It confirmed things in my spirit that needed to be confirmed.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is thank you for posting this...(sorry, said it again).

You are welcome.

I am all too familiar with the Pentecostal version of tongues(glossa).

They told me since I do not speak in their version of tongues, that I don't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They told me not only is it the only initial evidence, it's the only evidence. They have no scriptural evidence to back this up of course, because the gift of languages is the last in rank, not the first in rank(1 Cor 12:28). First in rank is apostles(apostolos) not tongues(glossa). So if they used scripture, then if you were not apostle, then you would not be baptized in the Holy Spirit, which of course we know this is not true either.

Acts 11:13-17.


And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


Where are the Pentecostal tongues(Unknown Heavenly Languages) in this baptism of the Holy Spirit event? Where are any spiritual gift evidences for this matter?

Spiritual gifts(tongues included) are not the evidence of the baptism, boldly proclaiming the gospel of Christ is the evidence.

Acts chapter 2 is KNOWN languages, not UNKNOWN languages. Pentecost is known languages, not mystery languages of Heavenly origin.Too bad Pentecostals don't realize this fact.

[VerticalReality]

Acts chapter 2 is KNOWN languages, not UNKNOWN languages. Pentecost is known languages, not mystery languages of Heavenly origin.Too bad Pentecostals don't realize this fact.

Again with the broad brush . . .

There are Pentecostals on this very site who have witnessed folks speaking in tongues that were KNOWN languages.

[Lamplighter]

Again with the broad brush . . .

There are Pentecostals on this very site who have witnessed folks speaking in tongues that were KNOWN languages.

That is what I said. Tongues(glossa) are known human languages from every culture around the world. Not some mystical Heavenly unknown to any man superhuman language.

I know some Baptist missionaries with the gift of tongues who can preach the gospel in Spanish to Spanish speaking people. They can also obviously interpret English into Spanish for their English only speaking ministry partners.

[VerticalReality]

That is what I said. Tongues(glossa) are known human languages from every culture around the world. Not some mystical Heavenly unknown to any man superhuman language.

Actually, in the prior post you stated that the "Pentecostal version" of tongues that you are "all too familiar with" was just some unknown language, as if Pentecostals do not believe that the gift of tongues can be a known language. The gift of tongues can very well be a known language, and there are Pentecostals on this forum who have witnessed this truth. So painting the entire Pentecostal denomination with this "version" of tongues you attribute to them is just wrong.

I know some Baptist missionaries with the gift of tongues who can preach the gospel in Spanish to Spanish speaking people. They can also obviously interpret English into Spanish for their English only speaking ministry partners.

The folks who spoke in tongues in Acts 2 did not go to a university beforehand to learn how to do it. Additionally, Paul stated that even he didn't understand the tongues he spoke, so these weren't tongues that he learned through his education.

[Lamplighter]

The folks who spoke in tongues in Acts 2 did not go to a university beforehand to learn how to do it. Additionally, Paul stated that even he didn't understand the tongues he spoke, so these weren't tongues that he learned through his education.

The tongues in Acts chapter 2 was a 1 time event in history to add 1000's of people to the body of Christ in one day.

Name another place in scripture where the Holy Spirit spoke through the apostles in every man's language and dialect all at the same time? There is no other event in scripture like this, or in recorded Church history either. The tongues of fire in Acts chapter 2 was a 1 time event in history.