Regular Contributor
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Exactly well said..I am afraid that VR just likes to argue I think it is a high for him. Hence I will not waste more time with him. I met many like him they will stick to their guns even when face to face with the absolute truth.Originally Posted by Lamplighter
God Bless
Randy
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Actually, the burden of proof is on your end. Name one spot in Scripture where it states that someone learned these tongues before speaking them. The fact is, there isn't one example in the Scriptures of this happening. Every occasion that we see in the Scriptures where someone spoke in tongues it was not according to any education that they received beforehand. You will not see this in Acts 2, Acts 10 or Acts 19. Likewise, you will not see that anywhere in Corinthians.
And again, the fact that Paul stated that even he didn't understand the tongues he spoke in eliminates that theory all together.
If it's learned . . . it's not a spiritual gift. You don't have to be a Christian to learn a language. Christians are not unique to learning. However, Christian's are unique to the power of the Holy Spirit working through them and using them despite their education.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
By His Stripes I'm Healed
You are correct. I will certainly stick to what the Scriptures say.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Regular Contributor
***
Have your way then you will face Jesus sometime soon. So will all the holy rollers which I am sure is disgusting to God to see people falling on the floor, barking like animals speaking giberish yup that will be a special dy for sure when the lord Jesus sets the record straight.
Ok done for good now..really
God Bless you VR
Randy
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Okay . . . I don't roll on floors, bark like an animal or speak gibberish.
However, I would appreciate it if you would change your tone and actually address the topic of the thread. We are not here to get personal with one another. That is not at all how our Lord wants us to conduct ourselves. If you want to continue on please address the topic of the thread and take the personal shots out of your posts. Thanks.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Regular Contributor
***
All i Said was the truth we all will face Jesus someday. What kind of personal shot is that. The holy rollers part of my post was from own Obsveration I have no ide why you thought that part was directed to you
God Bless
Randy
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Regardless of who it is directed to such a term is derogatory in nature and really serves no edifying purpose. This term will do nothing but offend people and really has no place on these forums. We are not here to offend. We are here to discuss the Scriptures in love and come to a knowledge of the truth.
Now, let's get this thread back on topic. If there is nothing left to be said then leave it at that.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Regular Contributor
***
What term holy rollers?
Your correct about the knowledge of truth as I said it was my own Observation so you have a problem with people sharing if it offends anyone or pushes a button then something is going on with that person.
I do not take pot shots at anyone if the truth is offense to you then keep it to yourself I just shared what I saw and heard with my own eyes and ears.
God Bless
Randy
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Yes . . .
The term has no place on these forums.
This is the last time I'm going to ask . . .Your correct about the knowledge of truth as I said it was my own Observation so you have a problem with people sharing if it offends anyone or pushes a button then something is going on with that person.
I do not take pot shots at anyone if the truth is offense to you then keep it to yourself I just shared what I saw and heard with my own eyes and ears.
God Bless
Randy
Let's get this thread back on track and address the topic. Addressing me is not going to get this thread anywhere, and referring to others with derogatory names is only going to close the thread.
Do you have anything else you would like to share regarding the topic of this thread?
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Regular Contributor
***
You are welcome.
I am all too familiar with the Pentecostal version of tongues(glossa).
They told me since I do not speak in their version of tongues, that I don't have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They told me not only is it the only initial evidence, it's the only evidence. They have no scriptural evidence to back this up of course, because the gift of languages is the last in rank, not the first in rank(1 Cor 12:28). First in rank is apostles(apostolos) not tongues(glossa). So if they used scripture, then if you were not apostle, then you would not be baptized in the Holy Spirit, which of course we know this is not true either.
Acts 11:13-17.
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Where are the Pentecostal tongues(Unknown Heavenly Languages) in this baptism of the Holy Spirit event? Where are any spiritual gift evidences for this matter?
Spiritual gifts(tongues included) are not the evidence of the baptism, boldly proclaiming the gospel of Christ is the evidence.
Acts chapter 2 is KNOWN languages, not UNKNOWN languages. Pentecost is known languages, not mystery languages of Heavenly origin.Too bad Pentecostals don't realize this fact.
We were also told that we were struggling in our walk because we had not been filled with the power of the Holy Spirit and given this gift that was like a direct line to God. Soooooo....I know how off some Pentecostals can be and I said some...not all. I believe that true tongues is indeed a known tongue..there is no need as you said, for someone to speak gibberish in a congregation that speaks the same language and I have experienced God speak through man...so I know it to be true.
I still struggle in understanding the prayer language and all that stuff.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
I'm not sure why it is being referred to as "gibberish", but Paul tells us the reason in 1 Corinthians 14 . . .
1 Corinthians 14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
The Lord often does a lot of things we may question. For example, why does the Spirit intercede for us with "groanings" as the Scriptures proclaim? What's the significance of these "groanings"? Why can't the Spirit just intercede for us in some other fashion that would be easier to explain with our logic? The reason, quite frankly, is that God is not accountable to man's logic.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Here is your scriptural proof right from Paul.
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
"hath set" in the Greek is (tithemi) it means placed.
"first" in the Greek is (proton) it means first in rank or time.
So God placed some in the church with gifts they had from leadership to bilingual people, and ranked them in order from first to last. The bilingual people were last in rank. It says God placed then in the Church, not made them in the Church, so as you can see, they already had the gifts naturally. Paul goes on to tell the Church at Corinth to covet the "best gifts". Paul wrote the letter to the Church, not an individual person in the church, so he tells the entire Church to covet the best gifts.
"best" in the Greek is (kreitton) it means more useful.
"gifts" in the Greek is (charisma) it means unmerited favor. In other words, you have what gifts you have already. They are unmerited.
As you can see, tongues(glossa) is last in rank, and is the least useful. Seek the best gifts, or more useful to the Church gifts as Paul said.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
So, you're claiming that Paul had the gift of an apostle naturally? You're saying that those who operated as prophets were prophets before they ever came to the Lord? This was something they just had naturally? Is the fact that I'm a pastor now because I was somehow gifted with this even before I came to know the Lord?
This is not even close to any Scriptural backing for your position, Lamplighter. Such a teaching is heretical, IMO. Paul was nowhere near an apostle in his own ability. In fact, he proclaims several times in the Scriptures that the only reason he is an apostle is through the grace of God. He didn't receive that grace of God until he accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior by faith.
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
Paul was placed in his position by God with unmerited favor. He already had the ability, just not the Holy Spirit to direct him in his ability. Before Paul's conversion, he was the best there was at what he did, getting Christians convicted of crimes against the empire. After Paul's conversion he was the best there was at what he did, convicting the empire that they needed Christ. Paul had the natural gift to spread any message, no matter what that message was.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Just because you can "spread the message" it does not make you an apostle. I've "spread the message" to quite a few people in my day and that doesn't make me an apostle. What about Paul before his conversion made him an apostle, and what Scripture do you have to back your position?
And again, how do you explain the fact that even Paul stated that he didn't understand the tongues he spoke in?
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
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