How is it that Biblical teachings coincide with certain philosphical teachings?

[WritingRose]

Does anyone thoroughly understand this subject, and where is a good site to read up on it myself?

What would you say to someone who tells you that much of the Bible lines up with certain philosophical teachings? Not only that but claims that some writings have been found alongside each other, as though they've been copied?

Please reply as soon as possible. Could really use some input on this matter.

~Rose

[HisLeast]

Does anyone thoroughly understand this subject, and where is a good site to read up on it myself?

What would you say to someone who tells you that much of the Bible lines up with certain philosophical teachings? Not only that but claims that some writings have been found alongside each other, as though they've been copied?

Please reply as soon as possible. Could really use some input on this matter.

I'm a bit of an amateur at this kind of stuff. Hopefully Apothenian Kerdos will swing by and drop some wisdom down.

From where I stand, it REALLY depends on the philosophy in question.

[WritingRose]

I'm a bit of an amateur at this kind of stuff. Hopefully Apothenian Kerdos will swing by and drop some wisdom down.

From where I stand, it REALLY depends on the philosophy in question.

Well I seriously hope someone can shed some light on thsi for me.

I am of the opinion that philosopher borrowed teachings, and that God's ever present influence on mankind also managed to influence them.

[HisLeast]

Well I seriously hope someone can shed some light on thsi for me.

I am of the opinion that philosopher borrowed teachings, and that God's ever present influence on mankind also managed to influence them.

Like I said... it would probably really depend on the Philosophy in question.

[JesusReignsForever]

Read: 1 Corinthians 2:1-16

There are a lot of people searching for ‘human wisdom’. Whether it is through the education system or human philosophy. Whatever it may be, it’s all foolishness in God’s eyes, as 1 Corinthians 3:18-20 says. That’s not to say we don’t bother with education, but just to recognize that Godly wisdom is more desirable. What should we be running after, and desiring above all else? Proverbs 8:10-11 speaks of wisdom being better than rubies or pearls, and there is nothing to be compared. You cannot learn Godly wisdom in a University and get a degree in it. It can only come to a heart in right relationship with God, and is seeking it. The Holy Spirit that dwells within us leads us into all truth. ‘…For the [Holy] Spirit searches diligently, exploring and examining everything, even sounding the profound and bottomless things of God [the divine counsels, and things hidden and beyond man’s scrutiny]. (V:10).

Two things were impressed upon me as a new Christian. The first thing was that the word of God, His teachings, is spiritually discerned. A person cannot possibly understand spiritual truths, unless they have the Holy Spirit within, teaching them the hidden meanings, (1 Cor.2:13-14). The human mind, no matter how intelligent cannot comprehend spiritual truths.

The second thing that was impressed upon me was that God raises up what the world considers foolish to shame the wise 1 Cor.1:25-28. This really stood out for me, as I was what the world would have considered foolish, not being well educated. But God chose me, and He chose you too. He can fill us with His wisdom and put worldly wisdom to shame. Let us desire and run after Godly wisdom. By doing so we will never be disappointed.

You may like to read the poemGod's Wisdom; Man's Folly

By M.S.Lowndes





For it is written, I will baffle and render useless and destroy the learning of the learned and the philosophy of the philosophers and the cleverness of the clever and the discernment of the discerning; I will frustrate and nullify [them] and bring [them] to nothing. Where is the wise man (the philosopher)? Where is the scribe( the scholar)? Where is the investigator (the logician, the debater) of this present time and age? Has not God shown up the nonsense and the folly of this world’s wisdom? ~ 1 Corinthians 1:19-20

Lord your wisdom I desire
More than costly jewels
Fill me with your Godly wisdom
So I may do your will

By M.S.Lowndes


Copied and pasted from http://www.heavensinspirations.com/gods-wisdom.html

[JesusReignsForever]

I tottally agree with the writer above some people just believe in these theologians too much...what always comes to my mind is "lean not toward your own understanding" I may ask questions but above all answers I am asking God to reveal to me the hidden fruits in his word..I desire to know what he truly thinks about things not completly what man says.

[WritingRose]

I tottally agree with the writer above some people just believe in these theologians too much...what always comes to my mind is "lean not toward your own understanding" I may ask questions but above all answers I am asking God to reveal to me the hidden fruits in his word..I desire to know what he truly thinks about things not completly what man says.

Yes, I know that the Bible is above the 'wisdom' of man.... but I am hoping there are some people on this board who are knowledgeable about the claims I mentioned above, and can shed some light on it.

Thank you for your input. I like your pic, as you look like a very happy lady.

~Rose

[thepenitent]

Does anyone thoroughly understand this subject, and where is a good site to read up on it myself?

What would you say to someone who tells you that much of the Bible lines up with certain philosophical teachings? Not only that but claims that some writings have been found alongside each other, as though they've been copied?

Please reply as soon as possible. Could really use some input on this matter.

~Rose

The philosopher you are referring to is almost certainly Plato. Many have argued that Paul was a platonist and that it forms the basis for his Christian metaphysic. This is easy to understand because Plato did have a strong "Christian" current running throughout his writings. I think it is mostly because Plato was just looking in the right direction, ie. focusing on the spiritual instead of the physical. It has been said it is as if Plato were viewing Christianity through a telescope. Despite the similarity of focus, the details of the two are completely different.

It should be noted the neo-Platonists were fiercely anti-Christian. Plotonus and Porphry completely rejected Christianity. Despite that, their works, especially those of Plotonus, captivated St. Augustine and fueled his conversion to Christ. Augustine was incredibly influencial on the early Church, thus his Platonic orientation certainly influenced the flavor, but not the substance, of his theology. This continued very strong in the early Church until it was substantially diminished and modified by the Aristotlian teaching and theology of Aquinas.

[Bethany67]

Paul occasionally quoted or borrowed from philosophers, as you might expect from a well-educated Roman citizen. Socrates wrote of heavenly matters being perceived 'through a glass dimly' which is similar to 1 Cor 13 (note that Paul was writing to ex-Pagan converts in a Hellenized culture). Paul quotes the Cretan Epimenides and the liar paradox in Titus; Titus was a Gentile convert who had been left in Crete to organise the church. Paul was familiar with the traditions of the Athenian Areopagus and used them as a vehicle for discussing with Epicurean and Stoic philosophers and preaching in Acts 17.

If you read the Code of Hammurabi (Babylon, mid-18th century BC), you'll find various ideas similar to bits of the Old Testament, especially 'an eye for an eye.' It predates the written OT, but there may well have been a cross-fertilisation of ideas coming from Israelite oral tradition.

[WritingRose]

Ah, the Pentitent and Bethany. Thank you so much for your input. You have shed a little more light on the subject... I am eager for all information you can give, or a point in the right direction to study it for myself.

God Bless!

Rose

[Bethany67]

What would you say to someone who tells you that much of the Bible lines up with certain philosophical teachings? Not only that but claims that some writings have been found alongside each other, as though they've been copied?

I'd ask them for specific examples, then do my own research. It's easy to make a sweeping claim, but they have to be prepared to back it up when challenged on their assertion.

If they go down the 'Jesus Mysteries' route and talk about Gnosticism being the real Christianity until it was suppressed by the Church, be aware that the 'similarities' Freke and Gandy quote don't add up chronologically. They've used very poor scholarship; most of the sources they quote actually post-date Christianity and come from the second century, and they're relying on people not knowing that. It was that book that led me from Paganism back to Christianity; I'd hoped it would give me ammunition to use against Christians, but it was laughably pathetic as a resource.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Mysteries

[Walstib]

What would you say to someone who tells you that much of the Bible lines up with certain philosophical teachings? Not only that but claims that some writings have been found alongside each other, as though they've been copied?

HI Rose,

I can’t say I thoroughly understand the subject but it all seems quite logical to me. I would say it is as simple as the truth is the truth. The difference is knowing why the truth is the truth.

I think it would be difficult to find somewhere stealing is encouraged in a culture or one that believe laziness will get you ahead in life. The early bird gets the worm sort of thing. Proverbs if full of advice a bushman in the Congo can figure out just by being alive and thinking about things. So to me it only makes sense that wisdom transcends culture or outside influences. Showing God within this as the creation sings out the nature of God and man.

The bible includes this wisdom and more but also qualifies why it exists and whom it is behind it. As I understand most “hardcore” philosophers don’t want to ever find an end or beginning because it leaves them with very little to talk about. No way to claim “it’s my idea!!”

Some thoughts,
Joe

[Biastai]

"Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all."
Colossians 3:11

Some theological writers have pointed out that this coincides with citizenship of the Socratic kosmos. Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus wrote about the idea of a single world state of which all of mankind are citizens.

"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."
1 Corinthians 13:9-12

Some traces of the Platonic Idea may be found here. Plotinus spoke of a return to God termed "katharsis" which he claimed to have achieved while living(!!!). A yearning for communion with God by liberation of the body thus completing a return was also written of by Posidonius. Just a couple examples from a probable many.

R. H. Pfeiffer in History of New Testament Times writes that philosophy was trending towards monotheism in the intertestamental and apostolic periods, so some overlap would be expected.

[Bethany67]

R. H. Pfeiffer in History of New Testament Times writes that philosophy was trending towards monotheism in the intertestamental and apostolic periods, so some overlap would be expected.

Good one. I think it actually started to happen slightly prior to that, starting with the concept of the individual in distinction from the social unit. All around the same time (6th/5th century BC), you have the arrival of:

- Buddha with his teachings on personal enlightenment

- a move within Hinduism from the Vedas (correct ritual worship performed by priests) to the Upanishads (monism) and on to the Bhagavad Gita (personal revelation/experience of the divine)

- Zoroastrianism (Ahura Mazda, the eternal source of all that is good)

- the concept of correct relationships and individual moral development in Confucianism

[Biastai]

Good one. I think it actually started to happen slightly prior to that, starting with the concept of the individual in distinction from the social unit. All around the same time (6th/5th century BC), you have the arrival of:

- Buddha with his teachings on personal enlightenment

- a move within Hinduism from the Vedas (correct ritual worship performed by priests) to the Upanishads (monism) and on to the Bhagavad Gita (personal revelation/experience of the divine)

- Zoroastrianism (Ahura Mazda, the eternal source of all that is good)

- the concept of correct relationships and individual moral development in Confucianism

I don't contest your dating, but I was thinking more of philosophies that would've been in contact with the apostles (mainly Paul due to the extent of area covered) in that time. But with that said, thanks for pointing out Zoroastrianism. Some of the ideas found in Babylonian thought and Zoroastrianism could have (and seemed to) hitched a ride with the Jews on their way back from exile. Coinciding ideas with the Persian dualism are found in Paul's flesh/spirit dichotomy and maybe even in predestination.