I am a CHRISTIAN (and no longer a sinner) saved by grace

[jrick]

Have we not now become partakers of the divine nature,

We have. Eternal life does not begin once you die and go to Heaven. It begins when you first trust Jesus as your savior.

and do you feel God still looks at you as a sinner?

Because of Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross, no. He has taken my sin upon him, and in the sight of God, I am righteous.

[VerticalReality]

We have. Eternal life does not begin once you die and go to Heaven. It begins when you first trust Jesus as your savior.

I agree.

Because of Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross, no. He has taken my sin upon him, and in the sight of God, I am righteous.

So if even God doesn't view us as sinners . . . why should we identify ourselves with such a thing? God deals with us based upon the spirit because that is who we truly are. Now, someone who lives in sin is a different story because they are basically denying Christ in their wickedness. Those who practice lawlessness are not His.

[jrick]

So if even God doesn't view us as sinners . . . why should we identify ourselves with such a thing? God deals with us based upon the spirit because that is who we truly are. Now, someone who lives in sin is a different story because they are basically denying Christ in their wickedness. Those who practice lawlessness are not His.

If we do not consider ourselves to be sinful any longer, than what need do we have for a savior?

[VerticalReality]

If we do not consider ourselves to be sinful any longer, than what need do we have for a savior?

We don't "need" a Savior. We already have one. That's the point. Just because we may sin doesn't mean He is no longer our Savior. It doesn't mean that God now sees us as a sinner just because we committed a sin. Our true identity is found in the spirit . . . not in the flesh.

It's just as Paul stated in 2 Corinthians 5:16-17. We no longer regard anyone by the flesh. Flesh is where the sin is. Why should we not regard the flesh but still regard the sin? We are regarded by the spirit. In the spirit there is no sin. The spirit has not a flaw in it, and in Him is where our identity lies. If we are still found to be a sinner then we need another sacrifice to cleanse us of that sin. However, the Word declares that Jesus' sacrifice was good for all and for all time. He has cleansed me of my past sins along with my future sins. All of my sins that I have or will commit were long after He went to that cross. However, His sacrifice is still good enough to cleanse me of all of them.

[jrick]

We don't "need" a Savior. We already have one. That's the point. Just because we may sin doesn't mean He is no longer our Savior. It doesn't mean that God now sees us as a sinner just because we committed a sin. Our true identity is found in the spirit . . . not in the flesh.

It's just as Paul stated in 2 Corinthians 5:16-17. We no longer regard anyone by the flesh. Flesh is where the sin is. Why should we not regard the flesh but still regard the sin? We are regarded by the spirit. In the spirit there is no sin. The spirit has not a flaw in it, and in Him is where our identity lies. If we are still found to be a sinner then we need another sacrifice to cleanse us of that sin. However, the Word declares that Jesus' sacrifice was good for all and for all time. He has cleansed me of my past sins along with my future sins. All of my sins that I have or will commit were long after He went to that cross. However, His sacrifice is still good enough to cleanse me of all of them.

Yes, you are correct in saying that God no longer sees us as sinners because of Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice on the cross. But we still have this sinful nature inside ourselves and do fall in temptation. And when we do, we should still pray to God for forgiveness through Jesus' blood.

As for which nature we should regard each other, we should still acknowledge ourselves to be filthy sinners in the eyes of God, had it not been for Jesus' sacrifice.

What I'm concerned about is that you say that we should not identify ourselves as sinners (because God no longer does). Our sin is still very real, and we must always remember that had it not been for Jesus, we would all perish in God's wrath.

Hopefully this makes sense.

[Brother Mark]

What I'm concerned about is that you say that we should not identify ourselves as sinners (because God no longer does). Our sin is still very real, and we must always remember that had it not been for Jesus, we would all perish in God's wrath.

Hopefully this makes sense.

There is a difference between saying we are not sinners and saying we no longer sin. One is about identity and the other about action.

If God doesn't see me as a sinner, then why should I see myself differently than God does? For he sees truth.

When one fully understands his identity in Christ, his actions will begin to show that. As Jesus said "from the heart proceeds..." The more we know about who we are in Christ, the less sins we will commit, IMO.

[ChristianKnight]

Everyone sins, Christians not excluded.

[Mark F]

Interesting thread.

I think it is an argument of terms because many do not understand salvation in depth. These things take time to understand.

Words like imputation, santification, and propiciation need to be understood.

Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


I am not righteous, but by faith I am legally declared righteous.

How do we deal with this verse from Proverbs?

Proverbs 17:15
He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.


Because the wrath of God that should fall upon me was poured out on Christ.

The gospel says I am to believe and repent. Believe that Jesus was crushed by the Father to satisfy His justice. If I throw myself upon His mercy and grace God imputes what Christ did to me. Iam not made righteous, I am legally declared to share in the righteousness of Christ.

If our faith is true, if we have been regenerated, I will hate the sin I once loved and do the things that please God.

If my confession is in vain, or false, I will do the things I really do not want to do to get to heaven. In other words I will not do the things I love, and do the things I hate to get to heaven.


Peter says it very clearly;

1 Peter 1:13
[ Living Before God Our Father ] Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;


I am saved from my past sins.
I am being saved from the power of sin.
I will be saved from the presence of sin.

Amen!

[Firstfruits]

Everyone sins, Christians not excluded.

Are you saying that no one walks or lives in the Spirit, because if we do we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

Do we not have temperance or self control that we cannot say no to temptation.

Can we not overcome the wicked one?

Firstfruits

[VerticalReality]

And when we do, we should still pray to God for forgiveness through Jesus' blood.

So what would happen if you died before you had time to pray for forgiveness?

As for which nature we should regard each other, we should still acknowledge ourselves to be filthy sinners in the eyes of God, had it not been for Jesus' sacrifice.

I acknowledged that when I accepted Jesus as my Lord. Why should I continue stating something that isn't true?

What I'm concerned about is that you say that we should not identify ourselves as sinners (because God no longer does).

What I'm concerned about is that you insist that we should acknowledge ourselves as sinners when God does not. In other words, you are stating that what you should acknowledge yourself as trumps what God acknowledges you as. I say you should see yourself in the same way God does. After all . . . He is perfect in His judgment.

Our sin is still very real, and we must always remember that had it not been for Jesus, we would all perish in God's wrath.

Certainly nobody here is questioning our need for Jesus. That's really not an issue I don't believe.

[VerticalReality]

I am being saved from the power of sin.

Romans 6 declares that we have already been set free from the power of sin.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[Mark F]

Correct, sin dosen't have dominion over us.

Dominion is a supreme control, or absolute ownership.

VerticalReality,
I agree with what you say, it is also important to know that we have not attained to righteousness, yet we have that as our goal.

Good thread, these things are beneficial to express.

[VerticalReality]

it is also important to know that we have not attained to righteousness, yet we have that as our goal.

Actually, we have . . .

Romans 9:30-33
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

“ Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

[Brother Mark]

VerticalReality,
I agree with what you say, it is also important to know that we have not attained to righteousness, yet we have that as our goal.

Good thread, these things are beneficial to express.

VR has already addressed it, but I figured I would throw something else out there too.

Scripture says "He was made sin so that we might be made the righteousness of God". When we call ourselves unrighteous, since all the righteousness we have is God's righteousness, then we are calling Him unrighteous.

We have no righteousness outside of that which God gives us. We need to be careful about saying we are not righteous when we have His righteousness.

Grace and peace,

Mark

[jrick]

So what would happen if you died before you had time to pray for forgiveness?

I would still be saved. Jesus' death was a once-for-all sacrifice. When I accepted him as my savior, ALL of my sins were forgiven: my original sin, my past sin, the sin I currently commit, and every sin that I will make later. This is getting into RC theology (which I do not believe is true), where Jesus is sacrificed in every mass, because future sins are not covered.

I acknowledged that when I accepted Jesus as my Lord. Why should I continue stating something that isn't true?

Because both you and I still sin. (This discussion is just going in circles )

Although I will say, if you believe that Jesus died for your future sins, wouldn't this have to mean that you will still commit more sins?

What I'm concerned about is that you insist that we should acknowledge ourselves as sinners when God does not. In other words, you are stating that what you should acknowledge yourself as trumps what God acknowledges you as. I say you should see yourself in the same way God does. After all . . . He is perfect in His judgment.

God is all knowing. He still knows that we do fall short of his law, but he does not treat us or punish us as a sinner because that punishment has instead fallen on Jesus. But I do still see myself as God sees me: forgiven. I am a new creature, filled with his Holy Spirit.