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Thread: Did Samuel rise from the dead?

  1. #1
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    Did Samuel rise from the dead?

    Samuel died, yet Saul was able to call him back through a woman who had a fimiliar spirit.

    Did samuel go to heaven when he died? Did He come back from the dead to speak to Saul?

    How was this possible and do you believe saul went to heaven? Please state your opinion!

    1 Samuel 28
    We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladers View Post
    Samuel died, yet Saul was able to call him back through a woman who had a fimiliar spirit.

    Did samuel go to heaven when he died? Did He come back from the dead to speak to Saul?

    How was this possible and do you believe saul went to heaven? Please state your opinion!

    1 Samuel 28
    I don't know where we go after death. Total mystery. So that answers the first question. As for coming back from the dead... well, there was at least a conscious part of him that crossed back into the land of the living, but I don't think he was "raised from the dead" as that indicates to me something physical.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladers View Post
    Samuel died, yet Saul was able to call him back through a woman who had a fimiliar spirit.

    Did samuel go to heaven when he died? Did He come back from the dead to speak to Saul?

    How was this possible and do you believe saul went to heaven? Please state your opinion!

    1 Samuel 28

    Samuel don't come back for dead. That was like black magic. it look like him it was satan works.

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    Everything seems to be mostly clear about death and then we read Revelation and it puts us at square one with everything

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    Samuel's spirit went to Abraham's bosom. At the resurrection of Christ he went to the throne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirus View Post
    Samuel's spirit went to Abraham's bosom. At the resurrection of Christ he went to the throne.

    Do you have a scripture reference that can prove that?
    We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch365 View Post
    Samuel don't come back for dead. That was like black magic. it look like him it was satan works.
    Does satan tell the truth, and Acknowledge God as the samuel did?
    We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladers View Post
    Samuel died, yet Saul was able to call him back through a woman who had a fimiliar spirit.

    Did samuel go to heaven when he died? Did He come back from the dead to speak to Saul?

    How was this possible and do you believe saul went to heaven? Please state your opinion!

    1 Samuel 28
    It is my understanding Samuel was at Sheol (the abode of the dead). At the time I Samuel was written the Jews really didn't have a clear understanding / belief of what happens to a person after death.

    The idea of heaven came about some centuries later after the Babylonian captivity.

    So, it would seem that at the time of I Samuel, Samuel went to Sheol. He was called back from Sheol by the Witch of Endor. Saul also went to Sheol at his death.

    Enough rambling.

    OldChurchGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChurchGuy View Post
    The idea of heaven came about some centuries later after the Babylonian captivity.
    Huh? There was an understanding of heaven at least as early as Enoch.
    Nevertheless, Jesus Himself taught about heaven, so regardless when or where they 'came to the idea of heaven', it is truth.
    Mat 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
    I don't think that to this day the Jews believe anyone 'goes to heaven' when they die. They are expecting the kingdom to be established in Israel.
    Whereever we happen to go when we die, it would seem that not only Samuel, but Moses and Elijah were also there, the latter two appearing with Jesus on the Mount.

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    Hmm, I just got done reading 1&2 Samuel, and am pretty well persuaded the witch brought up a demon not the prophet. I believe the only one in scripture who communicated with the dead was Christ at the transfiguration. It's hard to accept that Saul, who had been rejected by God at this point, and who was not in any sort of communication with God, would be given the honor of receiving counsel from the departed prophet, which would have been effectively a blessing from God imo. Besides, a familiar spirit refers to a demon, and that's what this woman had.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch365 View Post
    Samuel don't come back for dead. That was like black magic. it look like him it was satan works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty
    Hmm, I just got done reading 1&2 Samuel, and am pretty well persuaded the witch brought up a demon not the prophet.
    This is not what Scripture says. Scripture directly says it was Samuel. Unless you can point out Scripture that says the person appearing before Saul was not Samuel, then you are outright contradicting what Scripture plainly says. It directly says it was Samuel. Nothing in the text says or implies that it wasn't Samuel. Not to mention the fact that Samuel's prophecy was completely accurate and was fulfilled. So would you say that a demon - one that Scripture does not hint at - was able to predict the future? Or that God allowed Samuel's spirit to be called up and prophesy just as he had done while alive?

    It's hard to accept that Saul, who had been rejected by God at this point, and who was not in any sort of communication with God, would be given the honor of receiving counsel from the departed prophet, which would have been effectively a blessing from God imo.
    An "honor"? What the prophets said had nothing to do with "honoring" the people. Most of the time they spoke messages of "turn or burn". Samuel didn't say anything that would "honor" Saul: he pretty much told him he would die with no way out.

    Samuel died, yet Saul was able to call him back through a woman who had a fimiliar spirit.

    Did samuel go to heaven when he died? Did He come back from the dead to speak to Saul?

    How was this possible and do you believe saul went to heaven? Please state your opinion!
    Where does it say Samuel came from heaven? It doesn't. It says he came up from out of the earth. Heaven is described as "up" in Scripture. What's described as "down"? The only place described as "down" or even in the earth was sheol or hades. The Scripture doesn't describe Samuel as coming from 'down' from heaven, it says he came 'up' from the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
    Hmm, I just got done reading 1&2 Samuel, and am pretty well persuaded the witch brought up a demon not the prophet
    That doesn't make any sense. Why did she react the way she did if it was what she was used to seeing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladers View Post
    Do you have a scripture reference that can prove that?
    Are you serious? You mean Samuel specifically? Of course not! Do I know and have scripture for what Abraham's bosom was and why they went there instead of in the Lord's presence and do I have scripture for the spirits seen in Jerusalem after the resurrection of Christ? Sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    This is not what Scripture says. Scripture directly says it was Samuel. Unless you can point out Scripture that says the person appearing before Saul was not Samuel, then you are outright contradicting what Scripture plainly says. It directly says it was Samuel. Nothing in the text says or implies that it wasn't Samuel. Not to mention the fact that Samuel's prophecy was completely accurate and was fulfilled. So would you say that a demon - one that Scripture does not hint at - was able to predict the future? Or that God allowed Samuel's spirit to be called up and prophesy just as he had done while alive?
    I first took it at face value that it was actually Samuel, for the reason you gave, that it does read "Samuel". But I think it's also a valid interpretion that it's Saul's and the witches impression that it's him, not that it is actually him. That's my opinion now.

    I had the same question as the OP when reading through this so I looked for reliable commentary on it;

    I'll copy some Matthew Henry on v. 7-14;
    III. He tells her his errand and promises her impunity. 1. All he desires of her is to bring up one from the dead, whom he had a mind to discourse with. It was necromancy or divination by the dead, that he hoped to serve his purpose by. This was expressly forbidden by the law (Deut. xviii. 11), seeking for the living to the dead, Isa. viii. 19. Bring me up him whom I shall name, v. 8. This supposes that it was generally taken for granted that souls exist after death, and that when men die there is not an end of them: it supposes too that great knowledge was attributed to separate souls. But to think that any good souls would come up at the beck of an evil spirit, or that God, who had denied a man the benefit of his own institutions, would suffer him to reap any real advantage by a cursed diabolical invention, was very absurd. 2. She signifies her fear of the law, and her suspicion that this stranger came to draw her into a snare (v. 9): Thou knowest what Saul has done. Providence ordered it so that Saul should be told to his face of his edict against witches, at this very time when he was consulting one, for the greater aggravation of his sin. She insists upon the peril of the law, perhaps to raise her price; for, though no mention is made of her fee, no doubt she demanded and had a large one. Observe how sensible she is of danger from the edict of Saul, and what care she is in to guard against it; but not at all apprehensive of the obligations off God's law and the terrors of his wrath. She considered what Saul had done, not what God had done, against such practices, and feared a snare laid for her life more than a snare laid for her soul. It is common for sinners to be more afraid of punishment from men than of God's righteous judgment. But, 3. Saul promises with an oath not to betray her, v. 10. It was his duty as a king to punish her and he knew it, yet he swears no to do it; as if he could by his own oath bind himself from doing that which, by the divine command, he was bound to do. But he promised more than he could perform when he said, There shall no punishment happen to thee; for he that could not secure himself could much less secure her from divine vengeance.
    IV. Samuel, who was lately dead, is the person whom Saul desired to have some talk with; and the witch, with her enchantments, gratifies his desire, and brings them together. 1. As soon as Saul had given the witch the assurance she desired (that he would not discover her) she applied to her witchcrafts, and asked very confidently, Whom shall I bring up to thee? v. 11. Note, Hopes of impunity embolden sinners in their evil ways and harden their hearts. 2. Saul desires to speak with Samuel: Bring me up Samuel. Samuel had anointed him to the kingdom and had formerly been his faithful friend and counsellor, and therefore with him he wished to advise. While Samuel was living at Ramah, not far from Gibeah of Saul, and presided there in the school of the prophets, we never read of Saul's going to him to consult him in any of the difficulties he was in (it would have been well for him if he had); then he slighted him, and perhaps hated him, looking upon him to be in David's interest. But now that he is dead, "O for Samuel again! By all means, bring me up Samuel." Note, Many that despise and persecute God's saints and ministers when they are living would be glad to have them again when they are gone. Send Lazarus to me, and send Lazarus to my father's house, Luke xvi. 24-27. The sepulchres of the righteous are garnished. 3. Here is a seeming defector chasm in the story. Saul said, Bring me up Samuel, and the very next words are, When the woman saw Samuel, (v. 12), whereas one would have expected to be told how she performed the operation, what spells and charms she used, or that some little intimation would be given of what she said or did; but the profound silence of the scripture concerning it forbids our coveting to know the depths of Satan (Rev. ii. 24) or to have our curiosity gratified with an account of the mysteries of iniquity. It has been said of the books of some of the popish confessors that, by their descriptions of sin, they have taught men to commit it; but the scripture conceals sinful art, that we may be simple concerning evil, Rom. xvi. 19. 4. The witch, upon sight of the apparition, was aware that her client was Saul, her familiar spirit, it is likely, informing her of it (v. 12): "Why hast thou deceived me with a disguise; for thou art Saul, the very man that I am afraid of above any man?" Thus she gave Saul to understand the power of her art, in that she could discover him through his disguise; and yet she feared lest, hereafter, at least, he should take advantage against her for what she was now doing. Had she believed that it was really Samuel whom she saw, she would have had more reason to be afraid of him, who was a good prophet, than of Saul, who was a wicked king. But the wrath of earthly princes is feared by most more than the wrath of the King of kings. 5. Saul (who, we may suppose, was kept at a distance in the next room) bade her not to be afraid of him, but go on with the operation, and enquired what she saw? v. 13. O, says the woman, I saw gods (that is, a spirit) ascending out of the earth; they called angels gods, because spiritual beings. Poor gods that ascend out of the earth! But she speaks the language of the heathen, who had their infernal deities and had them in veneration. If Saul had thought it necessary to his conversation with Samuel that the body of Samuel should be called out of the grave, he would have taken the witch with him to Ramah, where his sepulchre was; but the design was wholly upon his soul, which yet, if it became visible, was expected to appear in the usual resemblance of the body; and God permitted the devil, to answer the design, to put on Samuel's shape, that those who would not receive the love of the truth might be given up to strong delusions and believe a lie. That it could not be the soul of Samuel himself they might easily apprehend when it ascended out of the earth, for the spirit of a man, much more of a good man, goes upward, Eccl. iii. 21. But, if people will be deceived, it is just with God to say, "Let them be deceived." That the devil, by the divine permission, should be able to personate Samuel is not strange, since he can transform himself into an angel of light! nor is it strange that he should be permitted to do it upon this occasion, that Saul might be driven to despair, by enquiring of the devil, since he would not, in a right manner, enquire of the Lord, by which he might have had comfort. Saul, being told of gods ascending, was eager to know what was the form of this deity, and in what shape he appeared, so far was he from conceiving any horror at it, his heart being wretchedly hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Saul, it seems, was not permitted to see any manner of similitude himself, but he must take the woman's word for it, that she saw an old man covered with a mantle, or robe, the habit of a judge, which Samuel had sometimes worn, and some think it was for the sake of that, and the majesty of its aspect, that she called this apparition Elohim, a god or gods; for so magistrates are styled, Ps. lxxxii. 1. 6. Saul, perceiving, by the woman's description, that it was Samuel, stooped with his face to the ground, either, as it is generally taken, in reverence to Samuel, though he saw him not, or perhaps to listen to that soft and muttering voice which he now expected to hear (for those that had familiar spirits peeped and muttered, Isa. viii. 19); and it should seem Saul bowed himself (probably by the witch's direction) that he might hear what was whispered and listen carefully to it; for the voice of one that has a familiar spirit is said to come out of the ground, and whisper out of the dust, Isa. xxix. 4. He would stoop to that who would not stoop to the word of God.


    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    An "honor"? What the prophets said had nothing to do with "honoring" the people. Most of the time they spoke messages of "turn or burn". Samuel didn't say anything that would "honor" Saul: he pretty much told him he would die with no way out.
    Right. I meant "honor" in the sense that God would have allowed Saul's request of the witch to actually speak with Samuel to happen. I don't think God "honored" that request.

  15. #15
    But still: where does Scripture say it was a demon and not Samuel? Rather than trying to come up with a long, elaborate explanation for why it "couldn't have been" Samuel... what does Scripture say?

    The text doesn't just say "the witch and Saul were under the impression that the spirit was Samuel".

    "the woman saw Samuel"
    "Then Samuel said to Saul"
    "And Samuel said"
    "Then Saul [was] filled with fear because of the words of Samuel"

    The text says it was Samuel. The text gives no indication, implication, or suggestion that it wasn't Samuel. Trying to claim otherwise is simply contradicting what the Scripture plainly says. It says Samuel showed up.

    Right. I meant "honor" in the sense that God would have allowed Saul's request of the witch to actually speak with Samuel to happen. I don't think God "honored" that request.
    This simply reflects your personal idea of what God "would" or "wouldn't" do. Yet Scripture plainly shows God allowed Samuel to be called up. Once again, Scripture gives zero hint that it was someone other than Samuel who showed up. Which would mean that God did allow it, and trying to claim otherwise is simply contradicting what Scripture plainly says happened.

    The claim you make would be like me saying "I don't think Jesus honored Saul [in Acts] because he was a persecutor of the Christians and he was self-righteous." It's the same logic (and in this case, the same name).

    You don't think God would "honor" [king] Saul because he was an evil-doer.
    I don't think God would "honor" [pharisee] Saul because he was an evil-doer.

    But since Scripture plainly tells us that God did "honor" [pharisee] Saul and that Jesus appeared to him, why is it so hard to accept that Scripture just as plainly tells us that God did "honor" [king] Saul and Samuel appeared to him?

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