Therefore Let Thy Words Be Few!!!!!

[Firstfruits]

There is a difference between vain repetition and asking repeatedly. Jesus did not only ask one time, he asked three times. Again, in the words of our Lord, here is an example he gave us for prayer...

Luke 18:1-8

18 Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart, 2 saying, "There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God, and did not respect man. 3 "And there was a widow in that city, and she kept coming to him, saying, 'Give me legal protection from my opponent.' 4 "And for a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, 'Even though I do not fear God nor respect man, 5 yet because this widow bothers me, I will give her legal protection, lest by continually coming she wear me out.' " 6 And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge said; 7 now shall not God bring about justice for His elect, who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? 8 "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them speedily. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"
NASB

We see here that God's elect never stop praying for justice but it is a repeated cry, day and night. Repetitious for sure, but certainly not vain.

Snap!!!!

Hence my last post.

Firstfruits

[Chimon]

I think 'vain' is a poor translation because it implies that repeated words should not be used because prayers that are repeated will have no effect on 'swaying' God.

The NASB translates the Greek 'meaningless' while the ESV uses the word 'empty.'

So here Jesus is not forbiding repetitive prayer, but rather praying with words that you don't mean or understand.

In other words, Jesus wants people to pray with their whole heart behind their words, rather than repeating phrases they have been taught in some intellectual dispassionate effort to sway God. So, repetition is fine, and not at all the issue. It is sincerity of heart that seems to be the issue to me.

What do you think of that?

Love in Christ,
Chimon

[Firstfruits]

I think 'vain' is a poor translation because it implies that repeated words should not be used because prayers that are repeated will have no effect on 'swaying' God.

The NASB translates the Greek 'meaningless' while the ESV uses the word 'empty.'

So here Jesus is not forbiding repetitive prayer, but rather praying with words that you don't mean or understand.

In other words, Jesus wants people to pray with their whole heart behind their words, rather than repeating phrases they have been taught in some intellectual dispassionate effort to sway God. So, repetition is fine, and not at all the issue. It is sincerity of heart that seems to be the issue to me.

What do you think of that?

Love in Christ,
Chimon

I agree that sincerity is a part of the issue, but it does not change "therefore let thy words be few"

Not everyone accepts that someone that prays few words is sincere.

Have you ever heard it said "Pray until you pray"?

Knowing that Jesus confirmed what is written, I would lean to accepting what Jesus has said.

Eccles 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart Be hasty to utter any thing Before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words Be few.

Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

Who shall we obey?

Shall we do much speaking in the hope that we shall be heard?

Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Zack702]

Who shall we obey?

Shall we do much speaking in the hope that we shall be heard?

Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

I agree we should be aware that God knows our hearts even when we do not pray.
To know this is to pray without stopping to know that God is watching and that our hearts are aware of his presence.
Then that short but wise prayer for God's will to be becomes exceedingly wise.

[Dani H]

I've noticed that over the years, my getting closer to the Lord has certainly resulted in using less words.

There certainly are words involved during petition and thanksgiving, or in hashing something out with the Father and just laying my heart bare before Him, but during times of fellowship with God ... no words needed.

I think our flesh has something in it where we think that praying equals talking.

It doesn't.

You can pray and not talk, and you can talk and not pray.

[Bladers]

I think 'vain' is a poor translation because it implies that repeated words should not be used because prayers that are repeated will have no effect on 'swaying' God.

The NASB translates the Greek 'meaningless' while the ESV uses the word 'empty.'

So here Jesus is not forbiding repetitive prayer, but rather praying with words that you don't mean or understand.

In other words, Jesus wants people to pray with their whole heart behind their words, rather than repeating phrases they have been taught in some intellectual dispassionate effort to sway God. So, repetition is fine, and not at all the issue. It is sincerity of heart that seems to be the issue to me.

What do you think of that?

Love in Christ,
Chimon

Repetition means -
1) A recitation or recital, especially of prepared or memorized material.


Jesus actually called repetition, "VAIN". meaning fruitless, without an outcome. The bible calls it foolish.

There is nothing as good or bad repetition, its repetition. If you come to God's presence and you recite your prayerlist 10 times, he heard you the first time. and the other 9 times was useless... While you could have waited for him to answer you, you went babbling the same thing over and over for an hour.

Why? "for they think they will be heard because of their many words."


In order for you to pray for hours and fellowship with Jesus as he did with the Father. You have to do this.

Ephesians 6:18 (KJV) - Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:18 (NIV) - And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

[Firstfruits]

I agree we should be aware that God knows our hearts even when we do not pray.
To know this is to pray without stopping to know that God is watching and that our hearts are aware of his presence.
Then that short but wise prayer for God's will to be becomes exceedingly wise.

Thanks Zack,

That surely confirms what is written in the following scripture;

Prov 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

Prov 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

I've noticed that over the years, my getting closer to the Lord has certainly resulted in using less words.

There certainly are words involved during petition and thanksgiving, or in hashing something out with the Father and just laying my heart bare before Him, but during times of fellowship with God ... no words needed.

I think our flesh has something in it where we think that praying equals talking.

It doesn't.

You can pray and not talk, and you can talk and not pray.

Thanks DaniHansen,

We may not be aware of the problems concerning using "a multitude of words;

Prov 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

Repetition means -
1) A recitation or recital, especially of prepared or memorized material.


Jesus actually called repetition, "VAIN". meaning fruitless, without an outcome. The bible calls it foolish.

There is nothing as good or bad repetition, its repetition. If you come to God's presence and you recite your prayerlist 10 times, he heard you the first time. and the other 9 times was useless... While you could have waited for him to answer you, you went babbling the same thing over and over for an hour.

Why? "for they think they will be heard because of their many words."


In other for you to pray for hours and fellowship with Jesus as he did with the Father. You have to do this.

Ephesians 6:18 (KJV) - Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:18 (NIV) - And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Thanks bladers,

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Bladers]

One more thing i did like to add. There are three dimension on prayer

Three Dimension of Prayer

1) Flesh = World conscience

2) Soul = Mind conscience

3) Spirit = God conscience


What happens in these three dimension of prayer?
Matt 5:7 - Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

1) Flesh = Asking

2) Soul = Seeking

3) Spirit = Knocking/Intimacy

We can also look at it through the tabernacle that God told moses to build

1) Outer Court

2) Holy Place

3) Holy of Holies


1) You Ask with a Prayer list in the outer court

2) You seek in the Holy Place with Worship and adoration and just loving Jesus

2) You Knock to enter the Holy of Holies by crying out to Jesus or with Holy Silence and there the bible says "I will speak with thee"

By the time you are done with 1 and 2, and you feel in your spirit to start knocking on the door of the holy of holies. Step 1 & 2 might be a good two hours, only if you have been rusty and do not pray every day.

[Firstfruits]

One more thing i did like to add. There are three dimension on prayer

Three Dimension of Prayer

1) Flesh = World conscience

2) Soul = Mind conscience

3) Spirit = God conscience


What happens in these three dimension of prayer?
Matt 5:7 - Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

1) Flesh = Asking

2) Soul = Seeking

3) Spirit = Knocking/Intimacy

We can also look at it through the tabernacle that God told moses to build

1) Outer Court

2) Holy Place

3) Holy of Holies


1) You Ask with a Prayer list in the outer court

2) You seek in the Holy Place with Worship and adoration and just loving Jesus

2) You Knock to enter the Holy of Holies by crying out to Jesus or with Holy Silence and there the bible says "I will speak with thee"

By the time you are done with 1 and 2, and you feel in your spirit to start knocking on the door of the holy of holies. That might be a good two hours, only if you have been rusty and do not pray every day.

With regards to the following, would it not depend on what you are praying for?

Mt 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mt 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Firstfruits

[Brother Mark]

Repetition means -
1) A recitation or recital, especially of prepared or memorized material.


Jesus actually called repetition, "VAIN". meaning fruitless, without an outcome. The bible calls it foolish.

There is nothing as good or bad repetition, its repetition. If you come to God's presence and you recite your prayerlist 10 times, he heard you the first time. and the other 9 times was useless... While you could have waited for him to answer you, you went babbling the same thing over and over for an hour.

Why? "for they think they will be heard because of their many words."


In order for you to pray for hours and fellowship with Jesus as he did with the Father. You have to do this.

Ephesians 6:18 (KJV) - Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:18 (NIV) - And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

I suppose that Jesus repeating his request 3 times was vanity, as was Paul when he repeated his request 3 times.

[Bladers]

With regards to the following, would it not depend on what you are praying for?

Mt 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mt 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Firstfruits

Well thats the asking dimension right there. You come to God and you confess your sins and you start telling him your prayer list. I want this, i want that, and so on. But so many people stop there and think thats all there is to prayer and they say amen.

Missing the 2nd realm and the 3rd realm. What did Jesus say? Seek the Kingdom! But people only ask and never move on to seeking!

[Bladers]

I suppose that Jesus repeating his request 3 times was vanity, as was Paul when he repeated his request 3 times.

No, Each time Jesus left. He started all over from the beginning again. He had to go through asking, seeking, and knocking.
So He asks each time and then goes to seeking the Father and knocking in Holy Silence.