Real Discussion

[catholicdude]

Hi, I'm Zach, I've been a member of this forum for about a week. I'm not a great theologian or apologist but I try. I come here, to the young adult forum and see no discussion of Christianity (basically). Not that I have anything against talking about relationships, everyone needs help, but don't you want to talk about what you came here for? don't you want to discuss your faith and evangelize? Aren't you curious about other denominations and what they believe and how it differs from your beliefs? You might find that you don't necessarily like where you are. I don't have any ideas about things to discuss but I'm sure someone could think of something and I'd be glad to have a discussion with them.

Pax,
Zach

[Romber]

I'm assuming if we have questions about Catholicism, you can answer them, right?

[Athanasius]

Hi, I'm Zach, I've been a member of this forum for about a week. I'm not a great theologian or apologist but I try. I come here, to the young adult forum and see no discussion of Christianity (basically). Not that I have anything against talking about relationships, everyone needs help, but don't you want to talk about what you came here for? don't you want to discuss your faith and evangelize? Aren't you curious about other denominations and what they believe and how it differs from your beliefs? You might find that you don't necessarily like where you are. I don't have any ideas about things to discuss but I'm sure someone could think of something and I'd be glad to have a discussion with them.

Pax,
Zach

By all means, lead the way.

[ilovemetal]

hey bud, there are also other sections of the forum that go more in depth into what you think this perticual section should be talking about....

maturing in christ is my fav....

i got one 4 ya.

how do we know we are saved?

[unkerns]

I used to be catholic too, Ive done some studies on other religions. Ive got 2 books that I think you might like to read "Pagan christianity" dont let the title scare you away, and "Tangible Kingdom"

[Revinius]

I find telling people to "ask more questions!" is a little counter-productive. Perhaps if you ask intriguing things then that will fracture off into more questions on other threads. If God wills it it will happen, and if you think this is a necessary thing from Him then pursue it.

[catholicdude]

I'm assuming if we have questions about Catholicism, you can answer them, right?

If you have any I'll most definitely try to the best of my ability. It may not be the best explanation but I'll do a lot of research before answering.

[catholicdude]

hey bud, there are also other sections of the forum that go more in depth into what you think this perticual section should be talking about....

maturing in christ is my fav....

i got one 4 ya.

how do we know we are saved?

Thanks, I'll look into those.

Now, I'm sure you know what my answer is but here it is anyway...
I don't believe you CAN know you are saved, you can hope for salvation, but you cannot know without a doubt that you will be saved. Also, you are saved by faith and works, not faith alone.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Pax,
Zach

[catholicdude]

I used to be catholic too, Ive done some studies on other religions. Ive got 2 books that I think you might like to read "Pagan christianity" dont let the title scare you away, and "Tangible Kingdom"

You used to be Catholic? Why'd you leave?

Are these just more books trying to say that Catholicism is Pagan? The second book sounds more like a book about salvation, is it? I might read them, I'm not sure where I'd even get them, I'll look into it.

Pax,
Zach

P.S. Merry Christmas to you all!

[unkerns]

The first book is about all religion, but its not against the Lord, but for him. It shows the historical transformation from the church of Acts to what we can now. Amazing story, but after reading the bible I saw things that catholicism believed in that was even against the word.

[Athanasius]

Now, I'm sure you know what my answer is but here it is anyway...

I don't believe you CAN know you are saved, you can hope for salvation, but you cannot know without a doubt that you will be saved. Also, you are saved by faith and works, not faith alone.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Actually, I will make the assertion that the intrinsic witness of the Holy Spirit is assurance enough of our salvation. I know I'm saved, just as I know Jesus is God; there is no doubt in my mind.

It's Christmas so you'll have to excuse me for writing this rather quickly, I'll present my view in full if you wish. With that said however I would also ask if you could present your argument for salvation by works in addition to faith. There are a few things you could mean and I want to be clear on what you're saying.

Are these just more books trying to say that Catholicism is Pagan? The second book sounds more like a book about salvation, is it? I might read them, I'm not sure where I'd even get them, I'll look into it.

Pagan Christianity doesn't speak exclusively of Catholicism but Christianity as a whole. The aim of the book is to raise awareness to the pagan influences which have changed the church - it's a debatable book (most book stores, Christian or not, should carry it).

[catholicdude]

Actually, I will make the assertion that the intrinsic witness of the Holy Spirit is assurance enough of our salvation. I know I'm saved, just as I know Jesus is God; there is no doubt in my mind.

It's Christmas so you'll have to excuse me for writing this rather quickly, I'll present my view in full if you wish. With that said however I would also ask if you could present your argument for salvation by works in addition to faith. There are a few things you could mean and I want to be clear on what you're saying.

Would you please explain what you mean by the, "intrinsic witness of the Holy Spirit"?

What I am saying is that while a person DOES NEED faith, they ALSO NEED good works, being a good person. Does that help? Just let me know if it means more explaining. Also, I wasn't sure if you wanted Biblical support so I left it out for now, if you want some just let me know.

Pax,
Zach

[catholicdude]

The first book is about all religion, but its not against the Lord, but for him. It shows the historical transformation from the church of Acts to what we can now. Amazing story, but after reading the bible I saw things that catholicism believed in that was even against the word.

What things are these of which you speak, I'm 100% sure that nothing Catholicism believes is against the Word of God. Give an example and I"ll try to explain.

[catholicdude]

The first book is about all religion, but its not against the Lord, but for him. It shows the historical transformation from the church of Acts to what we can now. Amazing story, but after reading the bible I saw things that catholicism believed in that was even against the word.

What "things" are these? I'm 100% sure that nothing Catholicism believes is against the Word of God. Give an example and I'll try to explain.

Pax,
Zach

[Athanasius]

Would you please explain what you mean by the, "intrinsic witness of the Holy Spirit"?

What I am saying is that while a person DOES NEED faith, they ALSO NEED good works, being a good person. Does that help? Just let me know if it means more explaining. Also, I wasn't sure if you wanted Biblical support so I left it out for now, if you want some just let me know.

Pax,
Zach

Please keep in mind that this is a Protestant forum (you may want to acquaint yourself with the rules as well as there are some regarding the promotion of Catholic doctrine) so my answers will generally be coming from that theological tradition.

By intrinsic witness of the Holy Spirit I mean the Holy Spirit speaking directly to that specific person, whoever that person may be. God, through the Holy Spirit speaking to ones own spirit, giving assurances of salvation. This might not be exactly parallel, but I would liken it to the Holy Spirit convicting of sin; it's the same sort of communication between God and believer.

In regards to a person needing faith but also needing good works. I am of the persuasion that Biblically speaking, Scripture is clear as to what's required for salvation - faith in Jesus Christ (by faith I mean faith as defined by historic Christianity [evidential], not as modernity would define faith). I don't believe scripture teaches that we must perform good works in the hope of salvation. As I said above, however, I do believe scripture emphasizes works as being evidential of true and sincere belief, though not a requirement for salvation.

Just to restate as to make myself absolutely clear; I don't believe scripture teaches Jesus plus works equals hope of salvation. So yes, scriptural support would be quite welcomed as I foresee a lot more explaining on both our parts in addition to those who would enter this exchange.