renouncing calvinism

[ProjectPeter]

Sure... if one is arrogant about it. Folks need understand though that there is a difference between arrogance and confidence. That can be a fine line sure... but a line nevertheless.

[Veretax]

So it's arrogant to believe that what you believe is the truth?

It's arrogant to say that one teacher who was not an apostle's teaching is somehow superior to all others and is the only one based on the bible. All such man made collection of beliefs essentially derive from the bible, the question is whether they are correct derivations. there was a time I believed in Infant Baptism, even believed the bible supported it. That is no longer the case for me, I no longer see those passages in the same isegetical and incorrect thinking and when I removed my preconceptions and read the text for simply what it says, I found that only by imposing my assumptions could I draw out that any infants or toddlers were thus baptized. that is just one example. Believe what you want, but I stand on the Bible alone not the words of any particular theologian.

[BrckBrln]

It's arrogant to say that one teacher who was not an apostle's teaching is somehow superior to all others and is the only one based on the bible.

Where did I say such a thing? I have never even read Calvin. For that matter, I've never read Luther, Edwards, or the Puritans either. And there is nothing wrong with saying Calvin is 'superior' (in the sense that he's more biblical and godly) than somebody like Pelagius.

Believe what you want, but I stand on the Bible alone not the words of any particular theologian.

What was that first sola of the Reformation again? Oh, that's right, sola scriptura (scripture alone). Not Calvin alone.

[Veretax]

Where did I say such a thing? I have never even read Calvin. For that matter, I've never read Luther, Edwards, or the Puritans either. And there is nothing wrong with saying Calvin is 'superior' (in the sense that he's more biblical and godly) than somebody like Pelagius.



What was that first sola of the Reformation again? Oh, that's right, sola scriptura (scripture alone). Not Calvin alone.

You know, tone of voice is always so hard to discern on a messageboard. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ here so if I perceived a Haughtiness that isn't there I thoroughly apologize. Please forgive my jump to conclusion.

[keck553]

If Calvin is right, why bother proclaiming the Gospel?

[reformedct]

If Calvin is right, why bother proclaiming the Gospel?

i think you are reffering to hyper calvinism which says:

God will save His elect so who cares if i witness

it is true that God will save who he plans to, however proper calvinism says:

since we dont know whose elect lets hurry up and preach the gospel to everyone! who knows whose gonna respond to the call!

[RabbiKnife]

I am an avowed Calvin and Hobbsist, and will fight any man, woman, boy or girl tooth, nail, and headbutts who denies the excellence and superiority of the same.

[ProjectPeter]

Let me go on record once again in yet another thread... I have had plenty of experience witnessing in the streets. I have had plenty of experience as well with trying to get baptist, pentecostal, charismatic, etc. folk out there working it too. You'd just as well asked them to give up their first born. When it got down to folks showing up... it was mostly Reformed folk. That isn't just in one place either... that is across the board.

Keep in mind that not a lot of Reformed do a lot of witnessing either... but there isn't a group of folk out there who have the market cornered in witnessing very little. Most fit that bill regardless of denomination or church affiliation. I also speak that to the churches shame. In that regard the Mormons and JW's make us look like we really don't have much good news at all.

[Veretax]

Let me go on record once again in yet another thread... I have had plenty of experience witnessing in the streets. I have had plenty of experience as well with trying to get baptist, pentecostal, charismatic, etc. folk out there working it too. You'd just as well asked them to give up their first born. When it got down to folks showing up... it was mostly Reformed folk. That isn't just in one place either... that is across the board.

Keep in mind that not a lot of Reformed do a lot of witnessing either... but there isn't a group of folk out there who have the market cornered in witnessing very little. Most fit that bill regardless of denomination or church affiliation. I also speak that to the churches shame. In that regard the Mormons and JW's make us look like we really don't have much good news at all.

it probably varies by region as the people are varied. Our Baptist Church group in college, we really were out there at witnessing a lot. I'm actually wanting to make this a point of emphasis with my pastor that we should have a weekly time to do this, but his health is poor right now and I'm rather concerned :/

[Butch5]

I would like to 'set something straight' if I may. Calvinism is not the teaching of man. Yes, it is named after John Calvin but the doctrines under Calvinism are found in the Bible. If you don't feel comfortable with the term 'Calvinism' since it's named after a man, then just use the term 'The Doctrines of Grace'. Same thing, different name. I fully respect anybody's position to not be 'labeled' but I get the sense from some that those of us who don't mind the label are looked at as following doctrines of man rather than the Bible.

Sorry my friend, Calvinism is the doctrines of men.

[BrckBrln]

Sorry my friend, Calvinism is the doctrines of men.

Aren't you Catholic? Or close to it? Don't you think the ECF's were practically infallible?

[Friend of I AM]

So it's arrogant to believe that what you believe is the truth?

No..I don't think so. One has to be open to the possibility of error from time to time though...being that we are fallible human beings. I grew part Methodist..then went to a Baptist Church for a bit, then a Pentacostal..and basically found that foundationally many of these churches are very much the same. One needs to study oneself in any particular church and have faith in God when one hears a message..as no man alive that I know of is infallible when it comes to discerning the scriptures.

[Butch5]

Aren't you Catholic? Or close to it? Don't you think the ECF's were practically infallible?

What does what I believe have to do with Calvinism being doctrines of men?

I was a Calvinist, I know what Calvin taught, I have Calvin's 22 vol commentary, I have his institutes, I have read them sparingly, But can look up whatever he said. I have the Westminster Confession of faith, I can point out contradictions in it. Most Calvinists won't even admit to what Calvin taught. He taught double predestination, as did Luther, that God predestined some to heaven and the rest to hell. Where in the Bible are
we taught that God predestined people to hell? I also know that Calvin and Luther had many of their opponents killed if they disagreed with their theology.

And no, I am not Catholic, I am Christian. Yes, I hold that the Ante-Nicene Church fathers are extremely informative. I've never claimed they were infallible, however to study them in very valuable.

[The Parson]

As opposed to Calvinism, how about Jesusism? Not trying to be cute, just wanting to make a point.

[Emanate]

i am not here to say calvinism is not scriptural

but rather instead of saying i am this type of christian or i am that type of christian, we should all just read our bibles and see what it says

i agree with the concepts of tulip however i am not going to bind myself to using certain terms such as Total Depravity. instead i can just say: ephesians says we are dead in our tresspases and Jesus says we must be born again. instead of saying: John Calvin said...

u see what im saying? im not here to say calvinism is the wrong interpretation, im here to say i dont feel like i must be bound to that title

simply put, i agree with much of calvinism, but i will not call myself a calvinist. i am a believer who reads my bible

doctrinal statements are very important for churches so people can know what the church believes, however we dont have to walk around saying, im a calvinist or im an arminian. we can say my views are similar to john calvins or my views are similar to this guy or that but mainly i am a christian

Whenever someone starts quoting "church fathers", I usually stop listening