Defense

**ph33r** · Jan 3rd 2009, 06:00 AM

Is deadly force for self defense or defense of others bibical? Why or why not?
Btw I think it is and have no qualms expediating the life of someone who would threaten my family or any other defenseless person.

**AngelAuthor** · Jan 3rd 2009, 06:50 PM

Is it Biblical in what sense? The use of deadly force in self-defense is all over the Bible, but it's not specifically promoted. That doesn't mean much because neither is electricity.

Not using force (deadly if appropriate and required) in the defense of your own family would seem to me, especially for a man to be a bigger shirking of your Christian duty than killing someone to save them. The Bible says that the man who does not provide for his own family is worse than an infidel. Getting out, getting a job, providing a home, food, clothing, shelter and PROTECTION all fall under that.

The man who would pay for his wife and kids to live in a home and eat, but then just stand by while someone walked in and murdered them is no man at all, and all that he had worked for to provide for them is in vain.

**ph33r** · Jan 3rd 2009, 08:59 PM

I agree with you completly, while I don't think we should go out looking for fights I think self defense is a Christian solution. I am running into a increasing number of christians who believe we should just stand and turn the other cheek and be non-violent no matter what. I wonder if it is because I live in Seattle which is extremely liberal.

ChristianKnight · Jan 3rd 2009, 10:18 PM

I am kinda lost, are you meaning:

Would killing someone that is trying to kill you be wrong? Well, I'd say a big fat NO. I think every person should defend their family, and if neccessary others, even if it means death.

**ph33r** · Jan 3rd 2009, 10:34 PM

I agree but I run into allot of Christians who think otherwise. Just go post this on the bible chat or Christian answers and you will get people who think violence is a no no even though in the old testament God approved genocide.

ChristianKnight · Jan 4th 2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by ph33r

I agree but I run into allot of Christians who think otherwise. Just go post this on the bible chat or Christian answers and you will get people who think violence is a no no even though in the old testament God approved genocide.

Everyone has their opinoin.

**ph33r** · Jan 4th 2009, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by ChristianKnight

Everyone has their opinoin.

But which opinion is right?

**nato** · Jan 4th 2009, 05:22 AM

I agree with the majority opinion stated. I got into a rather heated discussion with a friend of mine over this issue recently. The argument, of course, is whether Jesus would approve of violence. I don't think that He was arguing with God the Father when the walls came tumbling down.

**ph33r** · Jan 4th 2009, 05:53 AM

People tend to forget Jesus will return wielding a sword and killing millions.

**Lefty** · Jan 4th 2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by ph33r

I agree with you completly, while I don't think we should go out looking for fights I think self defense is a Christian solution. I am running into a increasing number of christians who believe we should just stand and turn the other cheek and be non-violent no matter what. I wonder if it is because I live in Seattle which is extremely liberal.

I'll tackle the "turn the other cheek" passage in Mt. 5:38 because that gets twisted around;
As I understand it the "if someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also" explains a situation in which someone is being publicly insulted by a backhanded slap to the face, which supposedly was a public insult to the personal dignity of a Jew that the hearers at the sermon on the mount understood, and Jesus is just telling them here that this is a way we show that we hold God's honor above man's honor. This passage isn't about someone's life being threatened, it's about showing contempt for the value of other's opinions over God's.

Here in MI we have a self defense law that allows deadly force to defend against an imminent threat to life, great bodily harm or sexual assault with no duty to retreat. That sounds sane to me. What are you gonna do, die or watch someone die? So I agree with you, plus, I've never read anywhere in the Bible where this kind of self defense was judged wrong by God.

**Slug1** · Jan 4th 2009, 08:33 AM

Also something to look at... if it was wrong (a sin) for a Christian to defend themselves but yet when an intruder is in their house and they call 911 and the cops come to defend this Christian homeowner, what does this Christian homeowner expect them to do if it's a sin to defend yourself?

Let them do the sin of possibly killing an intruder?

1 Timothy 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

If it's a sin to kill in the defense of oneself then it's a sin for someone else to kill in your defense. Now that doesn't make much sense now does it especially when the most classic 911 call put out in the Bible was when Paul called for help while he planned to travel to Caesarea and he knew there was an ambush waiting for him that planned to kill him. We can read all about this in Acts 23.

Those soldiers (law enforcement also back then) sure would have put a hurting on those assassins if the ambush was executed when Paul and his armed escort rode on by.

So yeah, turn the other cheek when your pride is hurt... but pull the trigger before an attacker is about to kill you. It's a little quicker then calling 911 in the heat of battle.

ChristianKnight · Jan 4th 2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by ph33r

But which opinion is right?

I am pretty sure none are really right, that is why their called opinoins isn't it? I am pretty sure I remembered that from English cause me and a teacher got into a argument, but that was about everyday

**Biastai** · Jan 5th 2009, 05:05 AM

Its hard to overlook the realistic element of this problem. When theatened in this way, you will be making this decision in a split-second. I'd imagine if any threat of this nature involved my wife or baby daughter (well...I'm expecting a baby daughter in a couple months), my thoughts would only be on disabling the other man in a definitive and prompt manner. This might involve destroying a limb or inadvertently taking a life. I don't believe I would hold any regrets.

**HisLeast** · Jan 6th 2009, 04:26 PM

EXODUS 22:2 - If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
(what happens if someone DOES come to rescue her)

***Drums4Him*** · Jan 6th 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Slug1

Also something to look at... if it was wrong (a sin) for a Christian to defend themselves but yet when an intruder is in their house and they call 911 and the cops come to defend this Christian homeowner, what does this Christian homeowner expect them to do if it's a sin to defend yourself?

Let them do the sin of possibly killing an intruder?

1 Timothy 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

If it's a sin to kill in the defense of oneself then it's a sin for someone else to kill in your defense. Now that doesn't make much sense now does it especially when the most classic 911 call put out in the Bible was when Paul called for help while he planned to travel to Caesarea and he knew there was an ambush waiting for him that planned to kill him. We can read all about this in Acts 23.

Those soldiers (law enforcement also back then) sure would have put a hurting on those assassins if the ambush was executed when Paul and his armed escort rode on by.

So yeah, turn the other cheek when your pride is hurt... but pull the trigger before an attacker is about to kill you. It's a little quicker then calling 911 in the heat of battle.

Agreed, but I don't use deadly force, I have baseball bats stratigically placed and an exit plan incase someone breaks in.