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Thread: Christians/Pro-Israel?

  1. #1

    Christians/Pro-Israel?

    What should our stance be in this war between Israel and Palestine? Today I was in a very heated discussion with another Christian, they pretty much told me that Israel now is NOT the Israelites of the Bible. I was surprised to hear that coming from him. Being new in Christ I didn't know how to respond and just left the conversation. I was wondering what everyone's view on this. Also, my pastor has been very supported of Israel and vocal in church about what has been happening, and has told us that the media is one-sided. Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLove View Post
    What should our stance be in this war between Israel and Palestine? Today I was in a very heated discussion with another Christian, they pretty much told me that Israel now is NOT the Israelites of the Bible. I was surprised to hear that coming from him. Being new in Christ I didn't know how to respond and just left the conversation. I was wondering what everyone's view on this. Also, my pastor has been very supported of Israel and vocal in church about what has been happening, and has told us that the media is one-sided. Thoughts?
    I agree with your friend on the current Biblical position of physical vs. spiritual Israel and I don't consider myself a supporter of Israel in and of itself. BUT.....with regard to their current situation vis-a-vis the Palestinians I completely support their actions. They are not the aggressor. If Mexico were lobbing missles at Texas I would expect the US to hammer them. Israel has the right, as does any country, to defend its citizens. It clearly takes overwhelming force to do so. In this situation the Palestinians, as well as all radical Islamists, are the bad guys and Israel has the white hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLove View Post
    What should our stance be in this war between Israel and Palestine? Today I was in a very heated discussion with another Christian, they pretty much told me that Israel now is NOT the Israelites of the Bible. I was surprised to hear that coming from him. Being new in Christ I didn't know how to respond and just left the conversation. I was wondering what everyone's view on this. Also, my pastor has been very supported of Israel and vocal in church about what has been happening, and has told us that the media is one-sided. Thoughts?
    You'll probably get differing opinions. First I would tell him to be careful to not boast against the branches. Then if you're interested in the real history behind the modern state of Israel and their relationship with the Pals and the propaganda most would have us believe, here's a good read for you...

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pub/oof.html

    Btw, Hamas has been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israeli civilian areas for years... Israel has shown great restraint in this.
    Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
    -Jeremiah 6:16

    Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by thepenitent View Post
    I agree with your friend on the current Biblical position of physical vs. spiritual Israel and I don't consider myself a supporter of Israel in and of itself. BUT.....with regard to their current situation vis-a-vis the Palestinians I completely support their actions. They are not the aggressor. If Mexico were lobbing missles at Texas I would expect the US to hammer them. Israel has the right, as does any country, to defend its citizens. It clearly takes overwhelming force to do so. In this situation the Palestinians, as well as all radical Islamists, are the bad guys and Israel has the white hat.
    oh yes, thank you i agree with you that Israel has a right to defend. Thats pretty much my agrument, and I was in the wrong for bringing up the End Times into the discussion because thats when this person caught on to what I believed and it went sour from then on. I dont know if I believe it anymore, I don't know what I believe. I'm just trying to build a foundation on the basics and this is really messing with me.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by diffangle View Post
    You'll probably get differing opinions. First I would tell him to be careful to not boast against the branches. Then if you're interested in the real history behind the modern state of Israel and their relationship with the Pals and the propaganda most would have us believe, here's a good read for you...

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/pub/oof.html

    Btw, Hamas has been lobbing thousands of rockets into Israeli civilian areas for years... Israel has shown great restraint in this.
    thank you! i've been looking for some articles to show my friend because he is really adamant that hamas are not terrorists and that israel is killing children and innocent civilians; also, it'd be a good read for myself because i know what is being shown on the news is only one-side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLove View Post
    thank you! i've been looking for some articles to show my friend because he is really adamant that hamas are not terrorists and that israel is killing children and innocent civilians; also, it'd be a good read for myself because i know what is being shown on the news is only one-side.
    Here's a good video to show your friend on the Palestinian propaganda the news puts out...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys
    Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
    -Jeremiah 6:16

    Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

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    Read Galatians 4:21-31 where it talks of the covenant being a spiritual one not one based on blood (Jerusalem of the ground being cursed and Jerusalem of the air being the true dwelling place).
    "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
    -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

    "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

    Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

  8. #8
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    It's in the Hamas Charter to obliterate Israel.
    http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    It's in the Hamas Charter to obliterate Israel.
    http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
    As Christians should we not be against all violence, be it Israel smashing Palestine or vice versa?
    "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
    -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

    "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

    Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

  10. #10
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    Perhaps your friend has studied or heard teaching about the Jewish people back before or during King David's reign? The fact is, after Saul’s death, David was made king over Judah and 7 years later he was made king over all Israel. He was probably about 30 years old when he became king and reigned from 1009 BC-969 BC.

    I have studied much on all this, and its true, Judah was the kingdom from which David and later Jesus would descend. But here is a site that may help you see what I mean. I hope this helps you to understand that literally, today's Israel is not the Israel of back then.

    Who were the kings of Israel and Judah?
    http://www.gotquestions.org/kings-Israel-Judah.html

    Their site says, "The Bible has the answers. We'll find them for you."

    Solomon became king in 971 BC, possibly two years before his father David died and reigned until 931 BC. Solomon had inherited the throne of the most powerful kingdom then existing. It was an era of peace and prosperity with vast business enterprises and literary attainments.

    After Solomon died, the Kingdom was divided. Ten tribes formed the Northern Kingdom, called Israel, and Judah and Benjamin formed the Southern Kingdom called Judah. (Israel back then, was the kingdom of rulers like Ahab and Jezebel.)

    All the kings of Israel practiced idolatry; the worst served Baal. Many of the kings of Judah at least served idols; few served Jehovah faithfully. Some bad kings were partly good; some good kings partly bad. The kings, the approximate dates of their reign and their dispositions are listed below.

    KINGS OF ISRAEL:

    Jeroboam, bad, 930-909 BC
    Nadab, bad, 909-908 BC
    Baasha, bad, 908-886 BC
    Elah, bad, 886-885 BC
    Zimri, bad, 885 BC
    Tibni, bad, 885-880 BC
    Omri (overlap), extra bad, 885-874 BC
    Ahab, the worst, 874-853 BC (Most likely due to the influence of his wife, Jezebel!)
    Ahaziah, bad, 853-852 BC
    Joram, bad mostly, 852-841 BC
    Jehu, not good but better than the rest, 841-814 BC
    Jehoahaz, bad, 814-798 BC
    Joash, bad, 798-782 BC
    Jeroboam II (overlap), bad, 793-753 BC
    Zechariah, bad, 753 BC
    Shallum, bad, 752 BC
    Menahem, bad, 752-742 BC
    Pekahiah, bad, 742-740 BC
    Pekah (overlap), bad, 752-732 BC
    Hoshea, bad, 732-722 BC

    KINGS OF JUDAH:

    Rehoboam, bad mostly, 933-916 BC
    Abijah, bad mostly, 915-913 BC
    Asa, GOOD, 912-872 BC (King Asa dethroned his own mother, she was so wicked!)
    Jehoshaphat, GOOD, 874-850 BC
    Jehoram, bad, 850-843 BC
    Ahaziah, bad, 843 BC
    Athaliah, devilish, 843-837 BC (She was the daughter of Ahab and Jezebel! Married into the kingdom of Judah, and brought Baal worship into the kingdom. She was even more wicked than her mother, Jezebel, and stopped at nothing to be able to sit as ruler and QUEEN. Was the only woman to ever rule over Judah!)
    Joash, good mostly, 843-803 BC
    Amaziah, good mostly, 803-775 BC
    Uzziah, GOOD mostly, 787-735 BC
    Jotham, GOOD, 749-734 BC
    Ahaz, wicked, 741-726 BC
    Hezekiah, THE BEST, 726-697 BC
    Manasseh, the worst, 697-642 BC
    Amon, the worst, 641-640 BC
    Josiah, THE BEST, 639-608 BC
    Jehoahaz, bad, 608 BC
    Jehoiakim, wicked, 608-597 BC
    Jehoiachin, bad, 597 BC
    Zedekiah, bad, 597-586 BC
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revinius View Post
    As Christians should we not be against all violence, be it Israel smashing Palestine or vice versa?
    We should be against personal violence, yes. But when it comes to a State wielding the sword ( a right given by God) e.g. capital punishment, or one state defending itself against an aggressor, then it is a different matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    We should be against personal violence, yes. But when it comes to a State wielding the sword ( a right given by God) e.g. capital punishment, or one state defending itself against an aggressor, then it is a different matter.
    You can claim multi-lateral situations negate bi-lateral ones, but there is no biblical support to suggest a Christian tasked with loving an enemy can biblically blow them away.
    "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
    -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

    "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

    Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revinius View Post
    You can claim multi-lateral situations negate bi-lateral ones, but there is no biblical support to suggest a Christian tasked with loving an enemy can biblically blow them away.
    I did not follow your line of thought. Can you rephrase that? Maybe you were responding to another's post but accidentally quoted mine?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HisLove View Post
    ...Being new in Christ I didn't know how to respond and just left the conversation... I was wondering what everyone's view on this. Also, my pastor has been very supported of Israel and vocal in church about what has been happening, and has told us that the media is one-sided. Thoughts?
    First, you responded correctly to your friend. Second, listen to your pastor, who appears to recognize what I do, that Israel is a secular nation, governed by a secular political entity and as such will do things that appear just as unholy as what US leaders will do at times. The difference is that Israel contains an elect Remnant which is precious in God's eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    I did not follow your line of thought. Can you rephrase that? Maybe you were responding to another's post but accidentally quoted mine?
    You are saying that personal conflict (bi-lateral) is somehow negated when a third party (multi-lateral) comes into the fray. I am saying that: 1. Christianity is not the state; 2. Nowhere is there biblical support under the new covenant for my pointing a gun at someones head and pulling the trigger.
    "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
    -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

    "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

    Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

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