What is Sin?

[Scubadude]

No, I don't think those are the only sins the Bible lists. It's an even more exhaustive list than that isn't it? What separates us from God?

Yes, it is a burdensome list. Impossible to avoid committing all of them. if it were so, there would be no need for a Savior. I don't believe anything can separate us from God.

Although I agree with you on the comment about the doctor saying he loved you and all. I really think you have missed the point. It has to do with obedience, not a distant relationship such as a patient/doctor relationship.

I think maybe I did miss the point. Looking back at your first post, you quoted Matthew 9:11-13 and then asked how many of us go to the doctor when we feel good. At first blush, my response was, "It's more accurate to the passage to ask 'Who, when you are sick, has a doctor come to them when you didn't want him to?", because that's what Jesus did. He died for us when we were not asking him to, we were still sinners. Sinners, meaning, we did not believe in Him, we did not put our faith in Him, we did not love Him. This is a little closer to what I meant with my comment earlier about your simile (metaphor, analogy? I get them confused.) being wrong is that Jesus came to us, calling us to love Him and be in an intimate relationship with Him. Not because we recognized our need, but because He knew we need the relationship. If sin is disobedience, as you say, it is the disobedience of a lack of faith. How is it that God can say a murdering adulterer is a man after His heart? Through it all, David never gave up his faith.

Are you saying that once we've accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior, we can continue what we were doing before we did, with no consequences?

Can you say more about this before I answer? I'm not sure what you are asking. If I'm understanding your question (and I don't think I am), are you saying you live with a separation from God in your relationship with God? We are all sinners, aren't we?

[james1965]

You ask the question "What is sin?" Although you never answer it. 1 JN 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. The law is the ten commandments. So that is what sin is "the transgression of the law" per the Eternal.

[dljc]

Yes, it is a burdensome list. Impossible to avoid committing all of them. if it were so, there would be no need for a Savior.

I agree.

I don't believe anything can separate us from God.

There is one, and that would be us. We can turn our back on Him and He can give us over to a reprobate mind.

I think maybe I did miss the point. Looking back at your first post, you quoted Matthew 9:11-13 and then asked how many of us go to the doctor when we feel good. At first blush, my response was, "It's more accurate to the passage to ask 'Who, when you are sick, has a doctor come to them when you didn't want him to?", because that's what Jesus did. He died for us when we were not asking him to, we were still sinners. Sinners, meaning, we did not believe in Him, we did not put our faith in Him, we did not love Him. This is a little closer to what I meant with my comment earlier about your simile (metaphor, analogy? I get them confused.) being wrong is that Jesus came to us, calling us to love Him and be in an intimate relationship with Him. Not because we recognized our need, but because He knew we need the relationship. If sin is disobedience, as you say, it is the disobedience of a lack of faith. How is it that God can say a murdering adulterer is a man after His heart? Through it all, David never gave up his faith.

In Matthew 9:13 is the key to both parts of your comments here.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Repentance is the first step to our accepting His offer. Recognizing we're a sinner, then asking forgiveness for our sins. And then continuing to do so when we stumble (being obedient). Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

Yes, David was an adulterer and a murderer, but he recognized when he had sinned against God, he repented and asked for forgiveness. That's what we are supposed to do when we stumble no?

Can you say more about this before I answer? I'm not sure what you are asking. If I'm understanding your question (and I don't think I am), are you saying you live with a separation from God in your relationship with God? We are all sinners, aren't we?

I think I answered this above. If not let me know.

[dljc]

You ask the question "What is sin?" Although you never answer it. 1 JN 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. The law is the ten commandments. So that is what sin is "the transgression of the law" per the Eternal.

Are you sure about that?

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What does verse 40 mean?

[Borean]

Interesting point, Scrubadude...He did die for those of us who did not want Him to...I heard a great story:
A Sunday school teacher for teens saw a young man who always sat at the back and wanted to figure out a way to get him to participate more, which he was not doing either.
After class she stopped him as he rushed out from the door immediately after class was over and asked him if he worked out. He responded that he most certainly did. She asked him if he could do 150 pushups. Hi said he thought so. She replied she needed a definite answer, and he said yes.
The next day, she taught a lesson about the atonement.
When people were seated, she pointed out a few boxes of donuts on a table up front. She announced that this young man would do 10 pushups for each person so they could have a donut. It was ok at first, then he began to get tired. He always said yes though. Then one girls aid she did not want a donut because it was unfair he had to do so many pushups. The teaher responded to the young man, "Will you do 10 pushups for this young lady for a donut she does not want?"
He proceeded to do the pushups. People were in tears, people refused, but the excecise persisted. Then a bunch of peoplefrom another class came in. The class begged them to leave but the teacher insisted they stay and said there were donuts. They werehappy until they saw the exhausted young man still doing pushups for those who wanted the donut and those who did not. Again some took the donut some did not. At the end he collapsed with exhaustion and everyone understood the atonement better. This young man also was one of her best participants. The insturctor wept as she recounted this story and so did a lot of us.

[Scubadude]

I agree. There is one, and that would be us. We can turn our back on Him and He can give us over to a reprobate mind.

The act of giving us over to a reprobate mind is redemptive in nature, as it is God's desire that all come to the saving knowledge of Christ. Hence, He continues to involve himself in our lives. The prodigal son is the example. There is no path which leads back to God, that did not first proceed from him. I don't buy into the notion that God cannot look on sin. What else in all of humanity does he have to look upon or work with?

In Matthew 9:13 is the key to both parts of your comments here.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I think the question to ask here is, "Why did he come to call sinners to repentance?" Repentance is a means to an end, God's glory. The focus is not on the wicked or wickedness that needs repenting and forgiving, but the God who will use his creation to glorify himself, and go to unimaginable length to carry that out.

Repentance is the first step to our accepting His offer. Recognizing we're a sinner, then asking forgiveness for our sins. And then continuing to do so when we stumble (being obedient). Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

Danger! Danger, Will Robinson! Actually, it says, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Your focus seems to be more on the obedience of the commandments than on the regenerate heart expressing it's new nature through obedience (to the new law of love and grace). That passage goes on to discuss the giving of the Holy Spirit and that he will live in us. Jesus isn't laying down a new set of rules, he is talking about how your eyes will be opened to understand the relationship we have been made a part of.

Yes, David was an adulterer and a murderer, but he recognized when he had sinned against God, he repented and asked for forgiveness. That's what we are supposed to do when we stumble no?

Did David repent before or after he was confronted with his sin? It was after. He did recognize that he had sinned, but prior to that he tried to deny it. Yet, God was sill involving himself in Davids life for His own sake. God had something to accomplish through David, and his sin was not a stumbling block for God to carry out His will. David was a man after God's heart, not because he repented of anything, but because even in his sin he knew inwardly that God existed...... and that made him miserable in his unrepentant soul.