The Law Of Liberty?

[Firstfruits]

Is the law of liberty either;

a, Freedom to break Gods law?

or

b, freedom from the law?

There would have been a "c" but it leads back to "a".

Please supply scriptures when answering.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[The Parson]

Gee, I always thought the Law of Liberty was the scriptures. James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

[Firstfruits]

Gee, I always thought the Law of Liberty was the scriptures. James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Thanks The Parson,

With regards to the following, which scriptures concerning the law would you be reffering to?

Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[The Parson]

The verses in James my friend which deal solely with the scriptures. That is if we are we dealing with semantics? Did I misunderstand the premise? Or are we talking about the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which is intertwined with the verses in James.

[Firstfruits]

The verses in James my friend which deal solely with the scriptures. That is if we are we dealing with semantics? Did I misunderstand the premise? Or are we talking about the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which is intertwined with the verses in James.

I agree that the law of the spirit in Christ is interwined in the verses in James but how do they apply to my question?

Is the law of liberty either;

a, Freedom to break Gods law?

or

b, freedom from the law?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Emanate]

your choices do not cover the heart of what James is writing. The answer is there is only one Law to look into. The same word that was spoke from the beginning. Messiah made the same law into the perfect law of liberty.

[Firstfruits]

your choices do not cover the heart of what James is writing. The answer is there is only one Law to look into. The same word that was spoke from the beginning. Messiah made the same law into the perfect law of liberty.

Can you please supply scriptures regarding what you have said?

Thanks

Firstfruits

[Emanate]

Can you please supply scriptures regarding what you have said?

Thanks

Firstfruits

all red text are references to Torah commands.


James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word (the law is written on our hearts - the New Covenant), which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (this is the biblcal definition of "Hear -shema- O Israel" {hear and do}).
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer (the only Word to hear at this time was the 'OT'), he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty (looking into refers to looking into a law that already exists), and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (torah commands)

James 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Here, James speaks about violating Torah commands (thou shalt not) that hurt our others. He constantly quotes Torah commands and reiterates that we should love others, thus making the negative commands into something positive.
For example: Exodus 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. This is a negative command (to not do something) and violating this command makes one a trasngressor of the Law. In Chapter 1, James takes this negative command and makes it a positive command by saying that we should not only not do something, but there is something to do regarding orphans and widows by referring to the numerous positive commands regarding orphans and widows, thus speaking of the perfect Law of Liberty.


James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver (One lawgiver who gave one law, not two contradictory laws), who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

[Firstfruits]

all red text are references to Torah commands.


James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word (the law is written on our hearts - the New Covenant), which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (this is the biblcal definition of "Hear -shema- O Israel" {hear and do}).
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer (the only Word to hear at this time was the 'OT'), he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty (looking into refers to looking into a law that already exists), and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (torah commands)

James 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Here, James speaks about violating Torah commands (thou shalt not) that hurt our others. He constantly quotes Torah commands and reiterates that we should love others, thus making the negative commands into something positive.
For example: Exodus 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. This is a negative command (to not do something) and violating this command makes one a trasngressor of the Law. In Chapter 1, James takes this negative command and makes it a positive command by saying that we should not only not do something, but there is something to do regarding orphans and widows by referring to the numerous positive commands regarding orphans and widows, thus speaking of the perfect Law of Liberty.


James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver (One lawgiver who gave one law, not two contradictory laws), who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

That is a very strong description of the law of Christ if I may say so.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

What do you think?

Firstfruits

[Emanate]

That is a very strong description of the law of Christ if I may say so.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

What do you think?

Firstfruits

Yes, I will agree. The law was made liberty by Messiah. In a time when Judah was more concerned with outward appearance regarding law, Messiah and his disciples taught the love foundation of law.

[theBelovedDisciple]

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul is writing to the Galatians here who had been 'bewitched' by a certain group of people who tried to bring Born Again Christiains back 'under the Law'... being Justified by it.. attaining a 'rightouesness' on their own.. when Christ has Fullfilled the Law... they did this and this making the Work of the Cross 'null' and 'void'.. and he flat out told them that if your trying to be Justified by the Law again.. after what Christ has done and completed .. you have fallen from Grace.....


The Law of Liberty is freedom from the 'condemnation' that comes along with man's inablitiy to fullfill the Law on his own power.. because the 'flesh is weak'.. Christ fulfilled and accomplished what man could never do in Fullfilling the Law in Perfection in His flesh..

Back then there were certain groups that would 'creep' in unawares 'spying' on the Liberty which was given to those Born Again from above.. those In Christ.. Trusting in His Completed Work on the Cross... obviously these people that were spying were still trying to fulfill and adhere to the Law.. which under their beliefs made them Righteous... where as Christians were made Righteouss by Faith in what Jesus Accomplished.. These 'spies' were probably harrassing those Christians and pointing the finger as to why they weren't doing this and doing that.. or they 'had' to do this to be Righteous or do 'that'... bringing them 'under condemnation'.. when In Christ and walking in the Spirit... THERE IS NONE!

Freedom is 'walking in the Spirit'... and here there is No Condemnation'.. what so ever... those spies or Galatians who had bewitched those believers.. must of decieved those believers that they could attain righteousness thru their 'fleshly' works... instead of being led and motiviated by the Spirit of Christ..


What went on back then is no different today... If your walking in the Spirit you will be persecuted by those who 'still' Hold to the Law and that you as a person must fullfill it in its entirety....

Paul wept on occasion because he came to the Revelation that there are distinct 'enemies' to the Cross of Christ.. I believe this group of people is one of them... those who try to bring those Free In Christ.. back under the rudiments of the Law.. bringing them under Condemnation.. again when there is NONE..

Those who Abide in Christ.. and are Led by Him.. and Led by The Spirit.. will Love their neighbor as thyself... they will do this in Liberty and Freedom because Christ did it... and in this is the Law Fulfilled... not trying to achieve something in the power of the flesh which you will never be able to attain.. and what SOMEBODY has already fulfilled in His Own Flesh.. which was Perfect and Had No Sin...

Paul was 'spot on' when he revealed thru the Spirit that there are those who are led of the Spirit and Born of the Spirit (Born from Above) and that they would be persecuted by those who are born of the flesh... One need not go very far to see that in full bloom...

[Emanate]

when Christ has Fullfilled the Law... they did this and this making the Work of the Cross 'null' and 'void'.. and he flat out told them that if your trying to be Justified by the Law again.. after what Christ has done and completed .. you have fallen from Grace.....

Actually, It was not a matter of being justified by the law "again." no flesh was ever justified by the law. Justification was not the correct understanding of the Law, and this errant thinking is exactly what Messiah and Saul spoke against.

[Firstfruits]

Yes, I will agree. The law was made liberty by Messiah. In a time when Judah was more concerned with outward appearance regarding law, Messiah and his disciples taught the love foundation of law.

Would you also agree that the fulfilment of the law of Christ and the fulfilment of the law given to Moses are not the same?

Unless by the law made liberty by Messiah means that we are at liberty not to keep all that is written in the Mosaic law, or that we are free from the Mosaic law as no one can keep it.

Hence my question?

Is the law of liberty either;

a, Freedom to break Gods law?

or

b, freedom from the law?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Emanate]

Would you also agree that the fulfilment of the law of Christ and the fulfilment of the law given to Moses are not the same?

Unless by the law made liberty by Messiah means that we are at liberty not to keep all that is written in the Mosaic law, or that we are free from the Mosaic law as no one can keep it.

Hence my question?

Is the law of liberty either;

a, Freedom to break Gods law?

or

b, freedom from the law?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

c. none of the above.

[Firstfruits]

c. none of the above.

Is this law of Christ complete or not complete with regards to your description?

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

If this is incomplete then what is there that would make it complete, knowing that the law could not do what Christ did.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Firstfruits