Seek with your "heart"?

[Ciscokid]

I was lurking around here for a bit and several times I've read someone say "seek with your heart, not with your mind".

The heart pumps blood and that's about it...I gather this is figurative, but figurative for what?

My guess is "emotions" or something along those lines....but I've not found it very useful in life to make decisions based on emotions....usually that doesn't turn out so good.

So what does that mean, 'seek with your heart'?

[Biastai]

When saying that, was scripture being quoted? I've read the Hebrew rendering for "heart" in our translations in the Bible (lev, or levav or something like that) almost includes the meaning of "mind" as well. In a way, it would seem to mean to seek with one's whole being due to the fact that exact anatomical sources of the emotions and thoughts were not clear to the scriptural authors. As we interpret scripture, we take this into account.

So perhaps what is meant is "seek with your whole being, not with your mind only." Strictly intellectual seeking of the Lord will leave much to be desired due to the incomprehendable (<-- is this even a word?) nature of God from our vantage point. Therefore, the "leap of faith" has to take us the rest of the way. In fact, Paul identifies faith as our only available way.

I don't fully agree with the expression as I believe someone may intellectually seek the Lord with real earnest and desire (which I believe should be praised even though the effort may be felt to be futile by some). The hangup may be the stereotypical image of the cold, calloused, stone-hearted thinker searching for the concept of God with his face buried in the books. For me personally, I commend any desire in any shape or form to know God because at the very least, its a start.

[watchinginawe]

ck, Jesus leaves no doubt about how we should love God. We are to employ all aspects of our being:

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

I have come to conclude that during my atheistic years I searched because of the dissent of my heart. My mind was made up against God. I resisted the Lord with all my strength. My soul was in the balance. So I would say that seeking God with your heart means to recognize and give space to all parts of your being in your seeking. I would reckon that heart = our spirit, or our life force; that part of us that can "know" and give us "knowledge" of God.

God Bless!

[Ciscokid]

Thank you for the feedback! I see you're from PA, I'm in Harrisburg.

[Biastai]

Near the Delaware border here. I've read many interesting points in your posts here in the board. Keep it up.

By the way, is that you wearing a tutu in a 3-point stance?

[Psalms Fan]

Many Old Testament passages where the word "heart" appears, the hebrew word is actually "kidneys" ("reins", as the KJV translates it). Basically, it's the center and core of your being. Your "inmost self", if you will.

[Ciscokid]

Near the Delaware border here. I've read many interesting points in your posts here in the board. Keep it up.

By the way, is that you wearing a tutu in a 3-point stance?

LOL no that's Ace Ventura. I've always been such a goof and when that movie came out I thought "Wow, someone who knows my heart!".

P.S. A little irony never hurt anyone.

[tango]

I was lurking around here for a bit and several times I've read someone say "seek with your heart, not with your mind".

The heart pumps blood and that's about it...I gather this is figurative, but figurative for what?

My guess is "emotions" or something along those lines....but I've not found it very useful in life to make decisions based on emotions....usually that doesn't turn out so good.

So what does that mean, 'seek with your heart'?

When my wife stole my heart she didn't unlawfully acquire an oddly shaped lump of muscle covered with veins and filled with blood.

We can refer to the letter of the law and the spirit of the law - one is the precise legalistic meaning of the words on the page, the other is the intention of the law. The Pharisees "followed God" by obeying every single part of the Law to the very letter, yet completely missed the point of what the Law was there for.

In the same way if you are trying to come up with a purely logical argument that ends something like "therefore God exists, QED" you're not going to get very far. God isn't something that will pop out of a calculation, an attempt at reasoning, there is no "God answer" in a spreadsheet.

When you experience God directly there's no mistaking what's happening, and it's usually (in my experience at least) not something you can apply logic to.

[Ciscokid]

When my wife stole my heart she didn't unlawfully acquire an oddly shaped lump of muscle covered with veins and filled with blood.

We can refer to the letter of the law and the spirit of the law - one is the precise legalistic meaning of the words on the page, the other is the intention of the law. The Pharisees "followed God" by obeying every single part of the Law to the very letter, yet completely missed the point of what the Law was there for.

In the same way if you are trying to come up with a purely logical argument that ends something like "therefore God exists, QED" you're not going to get very far. God isn't something that will pop out of a calculation, an attempt at reasoning, there is no "God answer" in a spreadsheet.

When you experience God directly there's no mistaking what's happening, and it's usually (in my experience at least) not something you can apply logic to.

Ok here's why I'm confused. For years I led a life with a sincere Christian worldview/belief. I didn't question God or the Bible...one way or the other.

Never in my life did I witness any kind of spiritual "feedback" from God...at least not to my knowledge. When I hit 30 [I'm now 36] I left the Christian faith and slowly ebbed away into weak atheism.

I realized that I only see the natural world...it's all I've ever experienced. I had a Pastor come over to talk to me about this and he said the same thing "seek with your heart" ... your inner self.

Well I tried that for so long and after a while if you don't get verification or whatever it gets real hard.

I mean there has to be a reason why Christ performed those miracles....wouldn't you guys agree that God felt is was necessary for Christ to PROVE he was who he said he was?

That's not going by faith alone...that is giving physical verification of an extraordinary claim. I never got the benefit of that or anything even close.

I just don't think it's so crazy to want to have something to warrant your faith. Like I said, I was able to go on faith for so long and then eventually you have chances of abandoning that when you come up empty.

[Dani H]

Our "heart" really denotes our motivation, our drive, our attitudes, all those invisible things that make us do what we do. Our innermost being, not so much the physical pump that negotiates the blood flow through our bodies.

We really are to seek God with our entire being. Because if we put our whole heart into something, that means we're going after it with everything we've got. It also includes our minds, our energy, our time, our everything.

That doesn't mean we can't question, because from personal experiences, it's my personal questioning that has led me to seek answers. And to keep seeking when somebody else's answers didn't quite satisfy me. I'm not a fan of second-hand faith or riding somebody else's coattails. And I found that what I traditionally regarded as "faith" was many times just assumption, and it would scare me to discard those assumptions and push on because I didn't know what I would find. Well, what I found was true faith in a real God, who isn't afraid of my constant questioning, and who would often give me answers in ways least expected.

I would encourage you to venture out in faith a little bit and ask God to give you the desire to know Him once again, aside from what you would ordinarily view to be "God's representatives." The lowliest person can lead us straightway to God if they have a pure faith, and we may run into them in the least expected places. God has His people everywhere. And not always in the more "obvious" places we would at first look.

P.S. Mad props on the Ace Ventura in the tutu avatar.

[tango]

Ok here's why I'm confused. For years I led a life with a sincere Christian worldview/belief. I didn't question God or the Bible...one way or the other.

Never in my life did I witness any kind of spiritual "feedback" from God...at least not to my knowledge. When I hit 30 [I'm now 36] I left the Christian faith and slowly ebbed away into weak atheism.

I realized that I only see the natural world...it's all I've ever experienced. I had a Pastor come over to talk to me about this and he said the same thing "seek with your heart" ... your inner self.

Well I tried that for so long and after a while if you don't get verification or whatever it gets real hard.

I mean there has to be a reason why Christ performed those miracles....wouldn't you guys agree that God felt is was necessary for Christ to PROVE he was who he said he was?

That's not going by faith alone...that is giving physical verification of an extraordinary claim. I never got the benefit of that or anything even close.

I just don't think it's so crazy to want to have something to warrant your faith. Like I said, I was able to go on faith for so long and then eventually you have chances of abandoning that when you come up empty.

Are you happy to discuss the years you led a life with a sincere Christian worldview? That's probably a good place to start out - I too lived a Christian lifestyle for some years before deciding it wasn't something I wanted to be a part of. There's a huge difference between living a lifestyle and actually believing in it - following rules might change us from the outside inward, but God's Holy Spirit changes us from the inside outward.

Don't forget that even though Jesus performed all those miracles many people still didn't believe who he was. When heaven touches earth in the form of a miracle some people fall on their knees, others harden their hearts even further. To accept the truth of who God is we have to be willing to make changes to ourselves, changes with can be painful.

Waiting for something can be difficult, especially when it takes time. When God promised Abram a child Abram didn't believe it. He was old, and so was his wife. His wife even gave him her servant so he could have a child, but God delivered his promise. Abram had to wait over 10 years for it, but God delivered. When the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years they thought God had forsaken them, but God took them to the promised land.

[Biastai]

Ok here's why I'm confused. For years I led a life with a sincere Christian worldview/belief. I didn't question God or the Bible...one way or the other.

Never in my life did I witness any kind of spiritual "feedback" from God...at least not to my knowledge. When I hit 30 [I'm now 36] I left the Christian faith and slowly ebbed away into weak atheism.

I'm at about the age when you left the faith, and I too am struggling with certain elements of my own faith. However, I find it impossible to accept atheism because...

I realized that I only see the natural world...it's all I've ever experienced. I had a Pastor come over to talk to me about this and he said the same thing "seek with your heart" ... your inner self.

Well I tried that for so long and after a while if you don't get verification or whatever it gets real hard.

...in the natural world you see around you, its extremely difficult to argue against a singular ruling force over it all. The order in which all observable matter are broken down into the same system of elements and are obedient to a single (although widely differentiated...by us!) ruleset is undeniable. This may be considered weak verification, but I believe it is so simply because of overfamiliarity. We see it at every moment, and its just there...we may overlook it without awareness. At its worst, its a starting point for your search.

I just don't think it's so crazy to want to have something to warrant your faith. Like I said, I was able to go on faith for so long and then eventually you have chances of abandoning that when you come up empty.

It isn't crazy and its totally understandable. I'm about to go mad right now because I honestly know the feelings you are communicating, but my ability to explain is just not up to the task. In the church, I've observed this in others and myself as well where teenaged believers are asking different and more difficult questions due to their growing faith. However, the same ol' "Sunday school" answers are thrown back at them. Unsatisfied, a lot of them jump ship when going off to college or later. Interested believers simply ask questions as to aid their search. Scarcely anyone already attending church is looking to disprove the faith. In the same way, young children who are constantly thwarted in their quest for knowledge by their parents rebel later in life against them more fiercely than those whose pursuit was nurtured and encouraged.

The "seek with your heart" expression has some truth to it, but I see how it can be perceived as something said just to "make us go away" (no offense to your pastor, not saying he used it in this way). However, I encourage you to rekindle your search. One who loves God wants to know as much as he possibly can about him. I've diversified my search for the Lord myself with incredibly rewarding results.

[Gulah Papyrus]

'Seek with your heart' means you allow love(agape) to lead the way. Logic should not by any means be excluded, but if you let the 'seen' lead, and leave the 'unseen' as an afterthought or give it secondary consideration, then the unseen will always remain secondary, which puts the fullness of God out of reach.

[Borean]

I'd say seek with everything you've got...heart, soul, intellect and everything else you've got. That's why we have them. But the heart can guide everything else.