who will be in Heaven?

**lolaboo** · Feb 10th 2009, 05:32 PM

Is it just people who got "saved" through our Lord Jesus Christ? What about the people who lived before Him?

***karenoka27*** · Feb 10th 2009, 06:36 PM

Hi!

John 14:6-"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Before Christ came they had to believe:
Genesis 15:6-" Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."

Now there is the issue with babies so we read in:
2 Samuel 12:22-"He answered, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, 'Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.'"

Does that help at all? If not feel free to keep asking.

**HankZ** · Feb 10th 2009, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by lolaboo

Is it just people who got "saved" through our Lord Jesus Christ? What about the people who lived before Him?

Lobaboo,
I don't want to give a useless generic answer to a complex question. Could you make this a little more specific and I will answer as best I can?
Thanks

P.S. I think it is awesome that you ask the tough questions.

**lolaboo** · Feb 10th 2009, 07:14 PM

thank you

well as i understand it, it is only possible for us to get to Heaven through Jesus Christ...so....what about all the people who lived before Jesus?

**HankZ** · Feb 10th 2009, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by lolaboo

thank you

well as i understand it, it is only possible for us to get to Heaven through Jesus Christ...so....what about all the people who lived before Jesus?

Those who have died before Jesus life were looking forward to the Savior.

Isaiah 19:20
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.

Isaiah 45:21
Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.

Psalm 65:4-7 (New American Standard Bible)

4How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.
5By awesome deeds You answer us in righteousness, O God of our salvation,
You who are the trust of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest sea;
6Who establishes the mountains by His strength,
Being girded with might;
7Who stills the roaring of the seas,
The roaring of their waves,
And the tumult of the peoples.

The poeple had knowledge that a Savior was coming and they trusted God to save them through faith just as we today have knowledge of a Savior who has already paid for our sins before we were born. It is through faith that we can have this salvation also.

I can't help but feel I am not doing justice to your question, but maybe it is a starting place.

**lolaboo** · Feb 10th 2009, 08:39 PM

HankZ thank you for your informative answer.

To summarise, would I be right in saying then, that before Jesus came people who died would be assured of a place in Heaven by their faith in God.

But now, since Jesus, we are only assured a place in Heaven by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.

And to conclude, is it right, that nowadays, if we only believe in God (as in Jewish) and DO NOT believe in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, then we will not be going to Heaven?

thank you for your time

**HankZ** · Feb 10th 2009, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by lolaboo

HankZ thank you for your informative answer.

To summarise, would I be right in saying then, that before Jesus came people who died would be assured of a place in Heaven by their faith in God.

But now, since Jesus, we are only assured a place in Heaven by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.

And to conclude, is it right, that nowadays, if we only believe in God (as in Jewish) and DO NOT believe in Jesus as Saviour and Lord, then we will not be going to Heaven?

thank you for your time

I know what I'm thinking, I just don't have the gift of sharing my thoughts with others. Sorry.

I was trying to say that those before Jesus, who had faith in the coming Christ to be their Lord and Savior would have been saved through faith.

Jesus is the only way to the father by everyone from Adam all the way to the very last person who will ever be born to this sinful world. Only through Jesus can anyone be saved.

**Wintermute** · Feb 11th 2009, 05:43 AM

Take a look at some of these: John 10:15-16, Romans 2:12-19, John 15:22-24, Acts 17:30-31, John 9:41, Luke 12:47-48 , Proverbs 24:12.

I believe there will be those that never had the opportunity of knowing Christ, but they allowed the Spirit to write the Law in their hearts and they will be in Heaven. God clearly does take into account innocent ignorance based on the verses above. However, in the example of a Jew that willfully rejects salvation in Christ...there is a problem here. Frankly to reject Christ, is to reject the Father, for they are one. It is to reject the Creator God. Further, the notion that Jews are accepting the God of the Torah, but not Christ is incongruous, since Christ is the God of the Torah. Who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, and to Joshua before Jericho, and to Abraham and Jacob? Who walked with Daniel's friends in the furnace? Frankly where is the Father in the Old Testament, really? There are few places for sure, but the majority is Christ. Thus the need for Christ to come and reveal the Father to us. His coming also reveals the Spirit, for there were Jews that said they didn't know there was a Spirit. The whole center of the Bible, cover to cover is Christ.

(This I believe is also the reason for Revelation pointing out God's people as those who "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." The Jews may have the commandments, but do not have the testimony of Jesus. Therefore Revelation speak of them as follows: "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you." Being a part of Spiritual Israel, the true Jews, requires acceptance of Christ, the testimony of Jesus.)

**Wintermute** · Feb 11th 2009, 06:11 AM

To more specifically address the question of those prior to the coming of Christ. What was the sacrificial system all about? The sanctuary system? It's worth taking a look. This all represented their faith in the cross/sacrifice to come. Their salvation was based on the merits of what Christ would do in the future. Even the festivals that were carried out throughout the year pointed to Christ (most prominently the first one, Passover, the day Christ died, type meeting anti-type as they say.)

Hebrews 11 is often referred to as the faith chapter. And it's mostly about people in the Old Testament. Faith in God then had the same principles as it does now.

In the sanctuary, there was only one entrance on the East side. Christ says he is the WAY, no one enters but through Him. An unblemished lamb was brought. The penitent placed his hands on the head of the lamb symbolizing the taking of sin upon the innocent. Then the penitent is given a sword to cut the throat of the lamb, it is our sins that brought about the death of Christ. The lamb symbolically containing sin is burned on the altar, our sins are forgiven and remembered no more. (Oh, and you've got to read Isaiah 53!)

I could go on, but I hope you see the point. The very promise in Eden at the start of sin in this world was the coming of Christ, and He has been the hope and salvation of the world from that point to now.

**shawn_2828** · Feb 11th 2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by lolaboo

Is it just people who got "saved" through our Lord Jesus Christ? What about the people who lived before Him?

Know one lived before Christ, because Christ is the Beginning and the End. Jesus is God. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit is eternal. So, the Father didn't just create us, Jesus and the Holy Spirit did also. They are all equal.

Jesus did not come after, Jesus was always with the Father, because they are one. But in the OT they had a sacrafical system that was set up temporary, until Jesus was sent to earth.

So in their time as long as they went by the rules that was given to them at the time, then they were ok. Think about Moses, he died before Christ died on the cross.

But yet he appeared with Elijah in Matthew 17:3, so it appears that Moses is in heaven with God.

***9Marksfan*** · Feb 11th 2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Wintermute

Take a look at some of these: John 10:15-16, Romans 2:12-19, John 15:22-24, Acts 17:30-31, John 9:41, Luke 12:47-48 , Proverbs 24:12.

I believe there will be those that never had the opportunity of knowing Christ, but they allowed the Spirit to write the Law in their hearts and they will be in Heaven.

So they didn't need to believe in Christ to get into Heaven? So there's no need for us to fulfil the Great Commission, because God can save people another way? And you believe that the Spirit saves people APART from leading them to a saving knowledge of Christ?

**lolaboo** · Feb 11th 2009, 10:01 AM

Thank you SO much for your answers - I am truly blessed to have people spend so much of their time answering my questions.

(well, apart from my "marie celeste" post......!)

I am going to re-read all these again a couple of times to truly ingest what has been written.

God bless you all xxxx

**keyboard4eva** · Feb 11th 2009, 11:33 AM

HEBREWS 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remissionIn the old testament the people made sacrifices by killing animals that were unblemished demontrating their faith in the Lamb of God who who will take the sins of the world. God recognised this thier faith and counts them righteous in Jesus like Abraham, Isaac ,Jacob, Noah, Job, Daniel,Enoch to mention a few.So it is not a crime not to have been born in the dispensation of grace which we are in now.God has his own timetable and has a plan for all who will fill into His plan.Bless you.

***Joe King*** · Feb 11th 2009, 06:58 PM

Who will be in heaven?

We will!!

**Wintermute** · Feb 12th 2009, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by 9Marksfan

So they didn't need to believe in Christ to get into Heaven? So there's no need for us to fulfil the Great Commission, because God can save people another way? And you believe that the Spirit saves people APART from leading them to a saving knowledge of Christ?

It is Christ doing the saving, no question. He uses the Spirit to carry out His work, baptism by fire. There is no question that bringing the truth of Christ is tantamount. However, I do not believe that somebody who has never had the opportunity to specifically know "Christ" is therefore blocked from Heaven.

If a person believes that to "believe in Christ" is just to acknowledge His existence and say "I believe." Then it wouldn't make sense that people who didn't have the opportunity to say that could be saved. However, if belief in Christ is inclusive of repentence, God's forgiveness, and walking with Him which results in the Spirit writing the law/character of God in your heart. Then it can happen to an Aborigine as well as any other.