The two shall become one flesh.

[BroRog]

The following post is rated "R" for mature audiences.

We are having a discussion about marriage and divorce in another thread, but related to that discussion is a word from our Lord concerning God's intent for marriage. In this thread I would like to say something about human sexuality as it relates to marriage.

I want to start at the beginning where Jesus did, in Genesis 2. To set this up, I want to review events that lead up to this point in the account. After God creates Adam, he places him in a garden with trees and other animals. He gives Adam a few instructions such as, "don't eat from this tree", and "give names to these animals."

It has been said that God gave Adam this task, to name the animals, in order that Adam might realize something about himself. In order to give each animal a unique name, and in order that Adam might remember that name a week later, he was required to study each animal and classify it according to it's most salient quality.

In the process, Adam learned that animals come in pairs, and he didn't have his mate like the other animals did. "Hey, where's my suitable helper?" And so God waited until Adam figured out for himself that he needed one, before he gave him one. We pick up the story here.

21So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
23The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man."
24For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
25And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.


The passage I underlined is the passage Jesus quotes in defense of his view of marriage and why divorce ran contrary to God's original intent for marriage.


For our purposes, I want to use this text more for what it doesn't say than for what it does say. I notice the complete lack of sex in this passage. While the male/female relationship implies sexuality, the sex act itself doesn't seem to be the central focus of this passage. It isn't even given a mention. The only way to find the sex act in this passage is for us to put it there. But while the sex act isn't mentioned at all, human sexuality is found in this verse at the end.

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

This speaks to another aspect of human sexuality other than the sex act itself -- intimacy. The couple were naked and were not ashamed.

Whereas God created Adam from the dust of the ground, he created Eve from Adam's rib. In this way, God gave Adam a visceral picture of closeness, intimacy, and belonging together, with which he might associate with his new wife. In the same way that a woman experiences a close intimacy unique to the birth experience, "the baby came from me", Adam experienced with Eve, "she is bone of my bone."

Adam and Eve were both naked and not ashamed. To be blunt (cover your ears) Adam exposed his genitals to Eve and he felt no shame. And Eve exposed her genitals to Adam and felt no shame. The couple couldn't get any closer. All things were exposed and nothing was hidden.

And so, it would seem that becoming "one flesh" is more than the sexual act itself. It involves complete exposure to your mate. Nothing hidden, everything accepted at face value. Becoming one in flesh involves trust, acceptance, openness, exposure, vulnerability, and above all, intimacy. I am willing to open myself completely and unreservedly to my mate, and she to me. Sexual intercourse is one of many activities possible between two people who have already decided ahead of time to be "naked" without shame. Naked in the physical sense, but also naked in the emotional sense, and in the spiritual sense.

And so we have at least one clue as to way sexuality outside of marriage is wrong. To have sexual intercourse outside of marriage is to lie to your partner. You promise with your body what you never intend to keep -- a life of intimacy without shame.

[9Marksfan]

Interesting thread - but I disagree that sex is not mentioned in Gen 2 - what does "joined" to his wife mean if it is not expressed ultimately in the sex act? This is surely what becoming "one flesh" means? Note it isn't "one mind" or "one spirit" but "one flesh" - the marriage union is intensely physical in its intimacy, although clearly the other aspects of intimacy must be there too.

I like your final point - I agree that it would be impossible for either partner who was committing adultery to any extent (physical or otherwise) to be naked with their spouse and not be ashamed......

[Forklifter]

My understanding is that it is talking about sex.


1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.


The only use for a harlot is sex, nothing else, and this sexual encounter makes a man "one flesh" with the harlot.

[BroRog]

Interesting thread - but I disagree that sex is not mentioned in Gen 2 - what does "joined" to his wife mean if it is not expressed ultimately in the sex act?

Jesus says, "What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

What is being joined here are not two bodies in a sex act, but two people joined in a marriage contract.

This is surely what becoming "one flesh" means? Note it isn't "one mind" or "one spirit" but "one flesh" - the marriage union is intensely physical in its intimacy, although clearly the other aspects of intimacy must be there too.

Yes, the main point is intimacy. The couple were naked and not ashamed, which speaks about physical intimacy but hints at other kinds.

I like your final point - I agree that it would be impossible for either partner who was committing adultery to any extent (physical or otherwise) to be naked with their spouse and not be ashamed......

I wanted, also, to highlight that since the main idea of marriage is intimacy, of which sexuality is a subtopic, it is possible to commit adultery in other ways, which on the surface do not appear adulterous since our view is focused on the flesh.

A wandering heart can be just as adulterous as a wandering hand. No?

[bagofseed]

Adam and Eve had a contract??

How does one accomplish marriage?

I think we are too far removed today from the truth of this.
People are taught that marriage is a ceremony accompanied by a legal document rather then a intimate physical act of giving your self to each other in Love.

Ask most single young Christians if they have ever been married and they will say no.
Ask them if they every had sex and tell them its the same thing and see what kind of response you get.

I am sure many wont agree but I believe that sex is the covenant act of marriage.
Sex without the intent to keep that covenant is fornication.
Sex that breaks an existing covenant is adultery.

[Emanate]

It would appear biblically that it was not a holy man or a contract that married people, but the act of sex is what constitued the marriage.

[Big Jake]

Judges 19:9-27

And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.

But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him.

And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it.

And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah.

And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah.

And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin.

And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging.

And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites.

And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?

And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house.

Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

But the man was not willing to spend the night, so he arose and departed and came to a place opposite Jebus (that is, Jerusalem). And there were with him a pair of saddled donkeys; his concubine also was with him.

Concubine Definition:

concubine: a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married: as a: one having a recognized social status in a household below that of a wife

Scriptures do mention men having concubines in the bible...so no, the act of sex unto itself does not denote one as being married. God bless in Christian Love. Jake

[Yukerboy]

Let us not forget the following:

1. It is good for a man not to marry.
2. Marriage is a concession, not a command.
3. Paul wished that all men were like Paul in that he was single.
4. Marriage is for those who cannot control themselves.
5. Marriage comes at a cost, resulting in many troubles that Paul wished to see us spared from.
6. Marriage, as bad as the above may make it seem, should not be forbidden.

[BroRog]

Adam and Eve had a contract??

How does one accomplish marriage?

I think we are too far removed today from the truth of this.
People are taught that marriage is a ceremony accompanied by a legal document rather then a intimate physical act of giving your self to each other in Love.

Ask most single young Christians if they have ever been married and they will say no.
Ask them if they every had sex and tell them its the same thing and see what kind of response you get.

I am sure many wont agree but I believe that sex is the covenant act of marriage.
Sex without the intent to keep that covenant is fornication.
Sex that breaks an existing covenant is adultery.

I'm saying that when Jesus argued with the Pharisees about divorce, he argued that two married people are inseparable based on his understanding of God's purpose for marriage as defined in Genesis 2. The passage he quotes comes at a point in the narrative in which Eve had just come out of Adam's side. Their intimacy was expressed, not in terms of the sex act, but in terms of their being naked together and unashamed.

I think you raise an interesting point about single young Christians and their view of sex. But I wonder if our generation's view of dating had similar problems? In some ways "going steady" was very close to marriage, if not a de facto marriage. Our sexuality is certainly a physical manifestation of becoming one flesh, but can we afford to ignore other manifestations of becoming inseparable?

I'd love to hear what the ladies have to say about the hidden expectations of dating, whether it be physical, emotional, or spiritual as in loyalty and integrity.

[Big Jake]

Let us not forget the following:

1. It is good for a man not to marry.
2. Marriage is a concession, not a command.
3. Paul wished that all men were like Paul in that he was single.
4. Marriage is for those who cannot control themselves.
5. Marriage comes at a cost, resulting in many troubles that Paul wished to see us spared from.
6. Marriage, as bad as the above may make it seem, should not be forbidden.

I wouldn't say that entirely is what he was trying to say. If all of us remained single, then it would be very hard to keep the human race going. I think marriage is good and edifying in one's life if they can get a spouse that will bring them closer to God. Moses married a Midianite woman, and I think him doing so was part of God's purpose and plan and did indeed bring him closer to God. Each one has to go by what direction they believe God is giving them within their lives.

[Big Jake]

The following post is rated "R" for mature audiences.

We are having a discussion about marriage and divorce in another thread, but related to that discussion is a word from our Lord concerning God's intent for marriage. In this thread I would like to say something about human sexuality as it relates to marriage.

I want to start at the beginning where Jesus did, in Genesis 2. To set this up, I want to review events that lead up to this point in the account. After God creates Adam, he places him in a garden with trees and other animals. He gives Adam a few instructions such as, "don't eat from this tree", and "give names to these animals."

It has been said that God gave Adam this task, to name the animals, in order that Adam might realize something about himself. In order to give each animal a unique name, and in order that Adam might remember that name a week later, he was required to study each animal and classify it according to it's most salient quality.

In the process, Adam learned that animals come in pairs, and he didn't have his mate like the other animals did. "Hey, where's my suitable helper?" And so God waited until Adam figured out for himself that he needed one, before he gave him one. We pick up the story here.

21So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
23The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man."
24For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
25And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.


The passage I underlined is the passage Jesus quotes in defense of his view of marriage and why divorce ran contrary to God's original intent for marriage.


For our purposes, I want to use this text more for what it doesn't say than for what it does say. I notice the complete lack of sex in this passage. While the male/female relationship implies sexuality, the sex act itself doesn't seem to be the central focus of this passage. It isn't even given a mention. The only way to find the sex act in this passage is for us to put it there. But while the sex act isn't mentioned at all, human sexuality is found in this verse at the end.

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

This speaks to another aspect of human sexuality other than the sex act itself -- intimacy. The couple were naked and were not ashamed.

Whereas God created Adam from the dust of the ground, he created Eve from Adam's rib. In this way, God gave Adam a visceral picture of closeness, intimacy, and belonging together, with which he might associate with his new wife. In the same way that a woman experiences a close intimacy unique to the birth experience, "the baby came from me", Adam experienced with Eve, "she is bone of my bone."

Adam and Eve were both naked and not ashamed. To be blunt (cover your ears) Adam exposed his genitals to Eve and he felt no shame. And Eve exposed her genitals to Adam and felt no shame. The couple couldn't get any closer. All things were exposed and nothing was hidden.

And so, it would seem that becoming "one flesh" is more than the sexual act itself. It involves complete exposure to your mate. Nothing hidden, everything accepted at face value. Becoming one in flesh involves trust, acceptance, openness, exposure, vulnerability, and above all, intimacy. I am willing to open myself completely and unreservedly to my mate, and she to me. Sexual intercourse is one of many activities possible between two people who have already decided ahead of time to be "naked" without shame. Naked in the physical sense, but also naked in the emotional sense, and in the spiritual sense.

And so we have at least one clue as to way sexuality outside of marriage is wrong. To have sexual intercourse outside of marriage is to lie to your partner. You promise with your body what you never intend to keep -- a life of intimacy without shame.

You must not have read the Song of Solomon.

[Yukerboy]

I wouldn't say that entirely is what he was trying to say.

I would say that is what Paul said. You are allowed to disagree with Paul.

If all of us remained single, then it would be very hard to keep the human race going.

Logical conclusion.

I think marriage is good and edifying in one's life if they can get a spouse that will bring them closer to God.

Marriage is a concession to those who cannot control themselves. Nowhere in Scripture is marriage said to be used for one to come closer to God.

Moses married a Midianite woman, and I think him doing so was part of God's purpose and plan and did indeed bring him closer to God. Each one has to go by what direction they believe God is giving them within their lives.

Now we're at the crux.

Yes, God included marriage in His plans. Those who are married were meant to be married. God doesn't make mistakes. I am not speaking against marriage as I am married myself. However, I will agree with Paul in that it is better to not be married....if you are unmarried.

[Big Jake]

Marriage is a concession to those who cannot control themselves. Nowhere in Scripture is marriage said to be used for one to come closer to God.

Read Proverbs 31. A wife or husband of noble character is indeed a blessing by God. God indeed does encourage such unions.

Yes, God included marriage in His plans. Those who are married were meant to be married. God doesn't make mistakes. I am not speaking against marriage as I am married myself. However, I will agree with Paul in that it is better to not be married....if you are unmarried.

I will say that it's a case by case scenario. Paul states that one is not approved over the other in God's view. We see that most of the Patriarchs were married men, and they are known as some of the most devoted followers of God, before the coming of his son.

[Yukerboy]

Read Proverbs 31. A wife or husband of noble character is indeed a blessing by God. God indeed does encourage such unions.

It's a blessing no doubt. I speak from experiecne, though my wife may not say the same

However, it is best for a man not to marry. An undeniable fact of the Scripture.

I will say that it's a case by case scenario. Paul states that one is not approved over the other in God's view. We see that most of the Patriarchs were married men, and they are known as some of the most devoted followers of God, before the coming of his son.

Agreed. I am not saying marriage is "evil" or "bad". Besides, I think every patriarch was married.

Marriage is a concession to those who cannot control themselves. No more, no less. It is better to marry than to burn, and it is better to be unmarried than married.

[Just_Another_Guy]

Let us not forget the following:

1. It is good for a man not to marry.
2. Marriage is a concession, not a command.
3. Paul wished that all men were like Paul in that he was single.
4. Marriage is for those who cannot control themselves.
5. Marriage comes at a cost, resulting in many troubles that Paul wished to see us spared from.
6. Marriage, as bad as the above may make it seem, should not be forbidden.

These are Paul's instructions to Timothy. God bless in Christian Love.


1 Timothy 4:1-6
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.