Whoever has been born of God does not sin

[fewarechosen]

Yes, I'm familiar with Romans 7. Do you see a conflict with these different translations of the Bible?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.. - KJV

Whoever has been born of God does not sin.. - NKJV

No one who is born of God practices sin.. - NASB

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning.. - ESV

for me not really ,because i guess i see the truth behind what they are trying to say if that makes sense.

but if we wanted to fine tooth come all the above then im sure we could come up with reasons why they do conflict.

i did not check a concordence with the above even to see for myself, but i do see how those/all translations could lead some astray without Holy Spirit. -practice/makes a practice, can imply other things also depending on how read and understood.

but - does not,doth not, is what i would say the better translation is ( although i find some mistranslate that into whohoo i dont sin im perfect look at me i feel good)

doth not commit sin - is very different from - makes a practice.

i mostly read kjv, some nkjv. and go to concordence. fyi

[mailmandan]

doth not commit sin - is very different from - makes a practice.

Yes, "doth not commit sin" and "does not practice sin" certainly sounds like two different things. Does the Greek behind these two different English translations clear up what appears to have John saying two different things?

[fewarechosen]

Yes, "doth not commit sin" and "does not practice sin" certainly sounds like two different things. Does the Greek behind these two different English translations clear up what appears to have John saying two different things?

i think its best to get as close as possible to the words that were actually spoken by Him/them. so i check concordences most often.

but i also find that that is not the end all be all answer because the Spirit has to interpret it for you. meaning often a simple couple words can be taken a few different ways.

pharisees searched and read a lot of scripture, but when the Son got here they tried to kill him, so what did they know ?

[markedward]

1. No one who is born of God practices sin (does not practice sin as a habitual lifestyle or bent of life).

I opt for this view, as I find it most consistent with John's talk about the Christian's life being a 'walk', being a progression. If you 'walk' is one of sin, you don't have God. That doesn't mean you won't stumble or trip during your 'walk' from time to time.

Obviously Paul would never claim that Peter was not 'born of God', but Peter clearly sinned when he stopped associating with the Gentiles for a period of time (see Galatians 2). Peter sinned, but he was still 'born of God', because he didn't go from a moment of sin into a full lifetime in sin.

[percho]

After, in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal put on immortality. Will you at this time be able to sin? Will it be possible to sin?

By the word of God I believe you will not, also Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: (why)for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

We will be just like Jesus, this Jesus Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence. Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (So born)


1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God,(conceived by the Holy Spirit in the church of Jesus the Christ, his body) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, (at the last trump) we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Does this not make sense and true to the word of God?

1 John 1:8,9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[markedward]

Literally:
All that has-been-born of the God, sin not he-is-doing, because [the] seed of-him in him is-abiding, and not he-can to-sin.

Properly:
All that have been born of God do not do sin, because the seed of him abides in him, and he can not sin.


The underlined verbs are both in the Present Active Indicative. It is a present, ongoing action that a person continues to do. This points back to chapter 1, where John tells his readers to 'walk' in God's light, meaning we are to consciously continue to abide by God's way. In that case, if we consciously continue to abide by God's way, it follows then that we consciously continue to not abide in sin.

The 'part of us that has been born again does not sin' perspective does not make sense within the whole context of John's epistle, where he talks about walking / abiding / continuing with the way of God, and not-walking / unabiding / discontinuing from the way of sin.

The 'is incapable of sinning, so if anyone sins it means they are not saved' perspective is unrealistic and inconsistent with the whole of Scripture.

[-SEEKING-]

Suddenly, three years later,

ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!!

[fewarechosen]

Literally:
All that has-been-born of the God, sin not he-is-doing, because [the] seed of-him in him is-abiding, and not he-can to-sin.

Properly:
All that have been born of God do not do sin, because the seed of him abides in him, and he can not sin.


The underlined verbs are both in the Present Active Indicative. It is a present, ongoing action that a person continues to do. This points back to chapter 1, where John tells his readers to 'walk' in God's light, meaning we are to consciously continue to abide by God's way. In that case, if we consciously continue to abide by God's way, it follows then that we consciously continue to not abide in sin.

The 'part of us that has been born again does not sin' perspective does not make sense within the whole context of John's epistle, where he talks about walking / abiding / continuing with the way of God, and not-walking / unabiding / discontinuing from the way of sin.The 'is incapable of sinning, so if anyone sins it means they are not saved' perspective is unrealistic and inconsistent with the whole of Scripture.

the part i underlined as to how the other scriptures pertain is this.

do you want to walk after the old man - and sin and so on
or do you want to walk after the new man- that does not sin

and that wars within us

i want to walk after the new man and strive to do so - but sometimes that old man just drags me down
but the new man in me never sins he cant

[mailmandan]

Suddenly, three years later,

ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!!

I thought this thread was worth bringing back to life.

[VerticalReality]

Obviously Paul would never claim that Peter was not 'born of God', but Peter clearly sinned when he stopped associating with the Gentiles for a period of time (see Galatians 2). Peter sinned, but he was still 'born of God', because he didn't go from a moment of sin into a full lifetime in sin.

I would look at things a little differently. I agree with you that Paul wouldn't have claimed that Peter wasn't born of God. However, I do believe Paul would say to regard no one according to the flesh (2 Corinthians 5:16). In other words, I believe Paul would acknowledge that Peter's actions were according to the flesh and not the spirit. I believe Paul would say Peter's spirit is incapable of sin because it has been born of God and made one with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17). We are not mere physical beings with a soul. I believe we are tripartite just as our Lord is. We were created in His image.

[fewarechosen]

I would look at things a little differently. I agree with you that Paul wouldn't have claimed that Peter wasn't born of God. However, I do believe Paul would say to regard no one according to the flesh (2 Corinthians 5:16). In other words, I believe Paul would acknowledge that Peter's actions were according to the flesh and not the spirit. I believe Paul would say Peter's spirit is incapable of sin because it has been born of God and made one with Him (1 Corinthians 6:17). We are not mere physical beings with a soul. I believe we are tripartite just as our Lord is. We were created in His image.

i agree the spirit quickens

1Jn_5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

[episkopos]

We are called to abide in Christ. Those in Christ cannot sin because they have rivers of living water flowing through them. When this happens NO impurities can come in.

We tend to get confused between having a new nature and abiding in Christ. We can have a new nature and go off on our own...even to minister with the gifts we have been given. But this is not abiding in Christ. We have to walk in death before we will see the new life kick in with it's abiding. We tend to aim for a wider road....so we stray from actually abiding in Christ. Then we sin...

[ewq1938]

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So who is born of God?

1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


Jesus was born of God, and guess what? He didn't sin!


1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus is the only one who could live literally sinless. We cannot and do not else we are liars:

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We all know what seed refers to and Jesus had no children.

[PJW]

What, exactly, was Peter's sin in Galations 3:2? Not eating with Gentiles? It seems to me that Peter was afraid of offending the Jews. Is that sin and not simply misguided customs?
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (I Jo 1:8) That is directed at the "we" from verse 6, those who walk in darkness. If you are a sinner, "walking in darkness", you cannot say you are not in sin. Besides, if no one can say they are without sin, then verse 7 is a lie. "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL SIN. (I Jo 1:7) Somewhere, someone was cleaned from all sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness." (I Jo 1:9) Confession of sins was done at baptism, as in Matt 3:6 and Mark 1:5. Couldn't they rejoice in the atonement provided for us saying, "I have no sin!"
For the "two natures at battle" proponents, my old nature was destroyed when my body of sin was crucified with Christ. "Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin, for he that is dead is freed from sin. (Ro 6:6-7)
As for Paul's struggles in Romans 7, he was writing of his life as a Pharisee. For Paul writes, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to "the law of sin" which is in my members." (Ro 7:23) Then he writes later, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from "the law of sin" and death." (Ro 8:2) If Paul is freed from it, "the law of sin", why would he be fighting against it as a reborn man of God?
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matt 7:18)
For the "habitual sinners" camp: If you smoke only on New Years eve, but not during the year, aren't you still a smoker? If you kill a man, you are a murderer for the rest of your life. But we get to be reborn to a new life of Godliness in Christ Jesus, where we are not liable for the sins committed by the "old man". Why would you go back to the dead man's ways?
Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death; ..." (Ro 6:23) But Paul also writes, "Some men's sinsare opened beforehand, going before to judgement; and some men they follow after." (I Tim 5:24) I have been judged unworthy of life, and have given-up my old ways with my old life. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
God made it possible to cast off the flesh, "the circumcision made without hands" (Col 2:11), that I may walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5:24-25)
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Co 5:17) How do you get "In Christ"? Romans 6:3 says we "are baptized into Jesus Christ..."
Remember, Jesus is coming back for a "glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)
Do I still sin? No. Do I still get tempted? Yes, but I know that the temptations are directed at a dead PJW, and cannot sway me. I have all the tools I need to resist the devil, Thanks be to God! "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (I Co 10:13)
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, ye shall never fall." (II Peter 1:10)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished:" (II Peter 2:9)
Jesus said, "Not everyone that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:21-23) It doesnt mention "habitual".
I love I John 3:2, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is. (Or as I translate, We shall see Him, being like He is.
God only gives the Holy Ghost to "those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32) No mention of "habitual"
"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him." (Heb 5:9) Again, no mention of "habitual"
You can live free from sin, totally, and without stumbling or slipping or whatever word you substitute for sin.
Thanks be to God!

[percho]

What, exactly, was Peter's sin in Galations 3:2? Not eating with Gentiles? It seems to me that Peter was afraid of offending the Jews. Is that sin and not simply misguided customs?
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (I Jo 1:8) That is directed at the "we" from verse 6, those who walk in darkness. If you are a sinner, "walking in darkness", you cannot say you are not in sin. Besides, if no one can say they are without sin, then verse 7 is a lie. "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from ALL SIN. (I Jo 1:7) Somewhere, someone was cleaned from all sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness." (I Jo 1:9) Confession of sins was done at baptism, as in Matt 3:6 and Mark 1:5. Couldn't they rejoice in the atonement provided for us saying, "I have no sin!"
For the "two natures at battle" proponents, my old nature was destroyed when my body of sin was crucified with Christ. "Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin, for he that is dead is freed from sin. (Ro 6:6-7)
As for Paul's struggles in Romans 7, he was writing of his life as a Pharisee. For Paul writes, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to "the law of sin" which is in my members." (Ro 7:23) Then he writes later, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from "the law of sin" and death." (Ro 8:2) If Paul is freed from it, "the law of sin", why would he be fighting against it as a reborn man of God?
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matt 7:18)
For the "habitual sinners" camp: If you smoke only on New Years eve, but not during the year, aren't you still a smoker? If you kill a man, you are a murderer for the rest of your life. But we get to be reborn to a new life of Godliness in Christ Jesus, where we are not liable for the sins committed by the "old man". Why would you go back to the dead man's ways?
Paul writes, "For the wages of sin is death; ..." (Ro 6:23) But Paul also writes, "Some men's sinsare opened beforehand, going before to judgement; and some men they follow after." (I Tim 5:24) I have been judged unworthy of life, and have given-up my old ways with my old life. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:20)
God made it possible to cast off the flesh, "the circumcision made without hands" (Col 2:11), that I may walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5:24-25)
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Co 5:17) How do you get "In Christ"? Romans 6:3 says we "are baptized into Jesus Christ..."
Remember, Jesus is coming back for a "glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)
Do I still sin? No. Do I still get tempted? Yes, but I know that the temptations are directed at a dead PJW, and cannot sway me. I have all the tools I need to resist the devil, Thanks be to God! "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (I Co 10:13)
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, ye shall never fall." (II Peter 1:10)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished:" (II Peter 2:9)
Jesus said, "Not everyone that sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:21-23) It doesnt mention "habitual".
I love I John 3:2, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is. (Or as I translate, We shall see Him, being like He is.
God only gives the Holy Ghost to "those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32) No mention of "habitual"
"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him." (Heb 5:9) Again, no mention of "habitual"
You can live free from sin, totally, and without stumbling or slipping or whatever word you substitute for sin.
Thanks be to God!

Very Good Post. When he shall appear. We will then be Born Again and we shall be like him.

And being made perfect: Read the context from whence this passage and you will see it refers to when he was raised from the dead by his Father. He became the author of eternal salvation: The firstborn of the dead. It is when shall appear we shall be like him, conformed to his image and it at this moment he is then the firstborn among many.

that they without us should not be made perfect. ---This is speaking of our resurrection--When shall appear.