Whoever has been born of God does not sin

[percho]

Absolutely sinless, yes. Unable to die, yes. Absolutely born again. Please clarify the "absolutely born again". I know that a Christian is already born again spiritually. Are you referring to the resurrection and stating that in the resurrection, we are begotten from the dead, just as Christ is the first begotten from the dead?

I would put it more like this. Being indwelt with the Holy Spirit we are begotten (conceived) again and being resurrected/changed at his appearing we are born again.

Question?

Romans 8:29 YLT because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

In that verse do not the many brethren become many brethren by being conformed to the image of Jesus His Son? When is it that, "we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"?
When did Jesus become the firstborn from the dead? Is it not at our resurrection that he will the, "firstborn among many"? Does that not at the very least imply that we will also be born from the dead at our resurrection when we are conformed to his image?

And as we have borne the image of the earthy. Was it not when we were born of the flesh, that we did bear that image?
We shall also bear the image of the heavenly. When is it that we will bear, be born with the image of the heavenly, called spiritual three verses earlier?

Just how many times do we have to be born in order to see, enter and/or inherit the kingdom of God?

[glad4mercy]

I would put it more like this. Being indwelt with the Holy Spirit we are begotten (conceived) again and being resurrected/changed at his appearing we are born again.

Question?

Romans 8:29 YLT because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

In that verse do not the many brethren become many brethren by being conformed to the image of Jesus His Son? When is it that, "we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"?
When did Jesus become the firstborn from the dead? Is it not at our resurrection that he will the, "firstborn among many"? Does that not at the very least imply that we will also be born from the dead at our resurrection when we are conformed to his image?

And as we have borne the image of the earthy. Was it not when we were born of the flesh, that we did bear that image?
We shall also bear the image of the heavenly. When is it that we will bear, be born with the image of the heavenly, called spiritual three verses earlier?

Just how many times do we have to be born in order to see, enter and/or inherit the kingdom of God?

Brother, I believe that we are begotten by the Spirit,I believe that our bodies will be resurrected, I believe we are predestined to be conformed to Christ's image,etc. To put it simply, I agree with everything you said, except one point. I believe that believers have already experienced the new birth. Scriptures are forthcoming.

[PJW]

I was born again after I allowed my "flesh" to be crucified with Christ. Then I was raised again to walk in newness of life. (Ro 6:4)

[glad4mercy]

I was born again after I allowed my "flesh" to be crucified with Christ. Then I was raised again to walk in newness of life. (Ro 6:4)

Amen, I agree with this PJW.

1 Peter 1:22-23- Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

( "born in verse 23 a is present, passive participle, meaning that we are already born again).

John 1 :12-13- But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The verb "Born" in John 1:13 is in the aorist tense, showing that it occurred at a point in time in the past for those who received Jesus. ( Note: the preposition "ana" or again, does not appear in this text, but it suffices to say that this passage is speaking of the second birth.

Even though I disagree with one point, post 76 was a great post, Percho. Post 78 as well, PJW.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Happy birthday to you. Only one will not do
Born again means salvation, how many ( birthdays) have you?

Those who are born once face the second death, those who are born twice need only face one death, ( and possibly not even one, if Jesus returns before we die.)

[HollyRock]

you ever read in scripture about the "new man" of the heart ?

that "new man" of your heart never sins

the old man of your flesh sins

hence why they war with eachother, as spoken of by paul

flesh vs sprirt
old vs new

"you" new man - never sins
"you" old man - sins

the born again part of you does not sin, because thats the new man.

YES AND AMEN !!!

[percho]

Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
you ever read in scripture about the "new man" of the heart ?

that "new man" of your heart never sins

the old man of your flesh sins

hence why they war with eachother, as spoken of by paul

flesh vs sprirt
old vs new

"you" new man - never sins
"you" old man - sins

the born again part of you does not sin, because thats the new man.

YES AND AMEN !!!

Now let me ask. Will there ever be a time when there isn't any part of the old man left to war against the new man? Just when will that be? Will we at that time have anything about us that is new in addition to what we presently have, as a new man? If so how shall it be acquired? Will there be at that moment a new totally formed man in the very image of the resurrected Jesus the Christ the first born from the dead? Are you presently a totally new born again creation or is there still a little work to do. Are you born or conceived and still developing in the womb of the mother of us all?

[John 8:32]

1 John 3
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Key words, 'does not sin' and 'cannot sin'...explain. Thanks. I have already had a hard time understanding this one.

God bless

What does it mean to be born of God?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Why?

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are born of God at the resurrection. When we are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit we are begotten.

Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Word for born here is...

G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Same word as...

Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Means literal birth. What is one like that is truly born of God?

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Invisible to the human eye.

We are currently begotten, as human Christians in a gestational stage...

1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

This last verse explains a lot. There are two categories, those born of God and those begotten of God. We are begotten of God and will be born of God at the resurrection. John said those born of God sin not, yet we read...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We will truly be sinless and never sin when we are resurrected as the resurrection chapter, 1 Cor 15, shows...

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice that 'we shall also bear' is future, now continue reading about the resurrection...

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul understood he had not been made perfect yet, he was pressing forward. He wrote these things over 20 years after his conversion.

[episkopos]

What does it mean to be born of God?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Why?

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We are born of God at the resurrection. When we are baptized and receive the Holy Spirit we are begotten.

Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Word for born here is...

G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

Same word as...

Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Means literal birth. What is one like that is truly born of God?

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Invisible to the human eye.

We are currently begotten, as human Christians in a gestational stage...

1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

This last verse explains a lot. There are two categories, those born of God and those begotten of God. We are begotten of God and will be born of God at the resurrection. John said those born of God sin not, yet we read...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We will truly be sinless and never sin when we are resurrected as the resurrection chapter, 1 Cor 15, shows...

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Notice that 'we shall also bear' is future, now continue reading about the resurrection...

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul understood he had not been made perfect yet, he was pressing forward. He wrote these things over 20 years after his conversion.

We must be careful about reducing the biblical standard to what we already know and experience. We are to be holy just as the Father is holy. That goes way beyond not sinning...

[PJW]

In John 3:3-8, Jesus speakes of being born again. In verse 10, Jesus asks Nicodemus, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"
Is Jesus alluding to an Old Testament scripture that foretells being made anew, or rebirth?
I believe that by repentance, (once) and being baptized as Romans 6 puts forth that I am conformed to Jesus Christ. I mean I would have to be born again to walk around here after my "crucifiction and burial and resurrection" with Christ. (Ro 6:5)

[Caleb]

I was born again after I allowed my "flesh" to be crucified with Christ. Then I was raised again to walk in newness of life. (Ro 6:4)

That would infer that we crucify the flesh by the flesh and not by the Spirit

[PJW]

I don't infer anything. God works in His way, which are beyond searching out.
Some say that we are saved by faith, and indeed we are. But this is where I have engaged that faith, to "KNOW" that my old sinful body of sin (Ro 6:6) has been killed and has no more power to control me. Temptations aimed at "me" are now aimed at a "me" that is dead and out of the picture. Too many say they can't live without sinning because they still have "this flesh". That flesh they allude to, I have believed is crucified and buried and raised again with Jesus Christ. (Ro 6:3-7) I live without sinning. And isn't that the proof of the "real doctrine" of Christ? Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "...Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." The truth I believe has indeed freed me from sinning.
Has yours?
I was able to crucify the flesh by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit? I have been reborn by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) I walk in the light as He is in the light. (I Jo 1:7) That is in the flesh, but not my flesh. His flesh! "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)

[John 8:32]

I don't infer anything. God works in His way, which are beyond searching out.
Some say that we are saved by faith, and indeed we are. But this is where I have engaged that faith, to "KNOW" that my old sinful body of sin (Ro 6:6) has been killed and has no more power to control me. Temptations aimed at "me" are now aimed at a "me" that is dead and out of the picture. Too many say they can't live without sinning because they still have "this flesh". That flesh they allude to, I have believed is crucified and buried and raised again with Jesus Christ. (Ro 6:3-7) I live without sinning. And isn't that the proof of the "real doctrine" of Christ? Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "...Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." The truth I believe has indeed freed me from sinning.
Has yours?
I was able to crucify the flesh by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit? I have been reborn by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) I walk in the light as He is in the light. (I Jo 1:7) That is in the flesh, but not my flesh. His flesh! "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)

Uh, maybe you would like to let Paul in on your secret...

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. - NKJV

Hmmm, 0ver 20 years after his conversion and he still sinned. You need to straighten him out and John, well he is beyond hope...

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. - NKJV

This last verse does not bode well for you.

[glad4mercy]

We must be careful about reducing the biblical standard to what we already know and experience. We are to be holy just as the Father is holy. That goes way beyond not sinning...

This is very true. Holiness not only involves what we don't do, it also involves what we do. We are set apart from sin to God.

[glad4mercy]

I don't infer anything. God works in His way, which are beyond searching out.
Some say that we are saved by faith, and indeed we are. But this is where I have engaged that faith, to "KNOW" that my old sinful body of sin (Ro 6:6) has been killed and has no more power to control me. Temptations aimed at "me" are now aimed at a "me" that is dead and out of the picture. Too many say they can't live without sinning because they still have "this flesh". That flesh they allude to, I have believed is crucified and buried and raised again with Jesus Christ. (Ro 6:3-7) I live without sinning. And isn't that the proof of the "real doctrine" of Christ? Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "...Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." The truth I believe has indeed freed me from sinning.
Has yours?
I was able to crucify the flesh by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit? I have been reborn by faith. Is that faith flesh or Spirit?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) I walk in the light as He is in the light. (I Jo 1:7) That is in the flesh, but not my flesh. His flesh! "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)

PJW, I agree with a lot of what you say. I agree that through Christ the flesh or sin nature must be crucified. I agree that we are set free from the power of sin. I agree that sin has no more dominion over us. The only thing I can't get my head around is the fact that you seem to be claiming to absolutely without sin. Now I can believe that you do not practice any sin, but can you really honestly tell me that you have not committed one single, solitary act of sin since you crucified your flesh?

Also, don't we need to deny the flesh daily? Didnt Jesus say we must deny ourselves, take up our cross daily, and follow Him. Isnt it possible that we may have crucified our flesh, that it is nailed to the cross, but if we are not careful, we might foolishly go up there and take it down again and let it live to our own undoing?

When we crucify the flesh, does it die instantly or is it still alive, but it's power and dominion over us is destroyed as long as we abide in Christ? Paul wrote the following statements to Christians.

Romans 8:13- For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die : but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live

Galatians 5:13- For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5: 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would .

So it seems to me that the flesh still seeks to entice us, that we need to resist it on a daily basis, and that if we are not dilligent we can fall back into our old ways, but praise be to God that Christ has set us free from the power of sin and He has broken the yoke of bondage of the the flesh. Now the flesh is deprived of it's power and we are free to walk in righteousness...

[PJW]

The flesh is "terminated". Faith in Christ allows us to abide in Him, now, so you can deny the "old" flesh. Romans 6:5-6 says that if we have joined Him in death, then we have also joined Him in His resurrection.
Those without the faith to believe that their old life is gone will continue to serve themselves.
I like Jesus' parable in Matt 5:29-30, where he says, "If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
This is a picture of what happens to a believer when he crucifies the flesh with Christ. That flesh cannot entice him anymore. That flesh has received its' judgement, death. Those that continue to follow the "old" flesh show that they don't have the faith needed to obey Christ. Or they are simply refusing to obey Him.
The flesh will always continue to lure us away from Jesus, but you have to remember that the old man is dead, daily also.
When Jesus said to take up your cross, what happens to someone carrying a cross? They are killed on it. Christians have obeyed that admonition.