Forgiving Others

[FullofQuestions]

Hi all :-)

I am wrestling with biblical forgiveness. I am trying to understand it, but there seems to be so many different views on the issue. My definition of forgiveness is to release an individual from the debt they "owe" you, or that you feel they owe you, because of sin. Forgiveness is to allow any punishment that comes on the individual to be at the hand of God or a justice system rather than one's own will or desire for ill-treatment.

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3. Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?

Any help?

[JerryShugart]

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3. Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?

Any help?

Hi FullofQuestions,

Since the Lord Jesus makes no distinction in regard to which men should receive our forgiveness I am of the opinion that He means all men:

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Mt.6:14-15).

In His grace,
Jerry

[Kahtar]

Hi all :-)

I am wrestling with biblical forgiveness. I am trying to understand it, but there seems to be so many different views on the issue. My definition of forgiveness is to release an individual from the debt they "owe" you, or that you feel they owe you, because of sin. Forgiveness is to allow any punishment that comes on the individual to be at the hand of God or a justice system rather than one's own will or desire for ill-treatment.

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3. Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?
Any help?

Jesus said forgive others even as I have forgiven you. How did HE forgive us? He took OUR punishment upon Himself. I'll let you think about that one.
Jesus' forgiveness is extended to ALL men, but only those who repent and accept His gift are recipients of it.
If we forgive as He did, then our forgiveness should extend to ALL who have sinned or trespassed against us. It should be readily available to all. Doesn't mean all will accept it, or repent of their actions.
A man sinned against me one time, and the Lord directed me to go to him and offer my forgiveness. But I knew that this man would not recieve it, and might even punch me in the face for speaking to him. I explained this to God (as if He didn't know). He said, 'Nevertheless, go and forgive him. Do the thing I have directed YOU to do, and leave him to Me.' So I did.
The man didn't punch me, but he didn't accept my forgiveness either, and quite emphatically suggested I leave his property. I left. I did what I came to do.
A full year later, the man approached me, repentant, appologizing, etc., and our relationship was restored. It took God a year of working on the man to bring him to that point.

[Big Jake]

Hi all :-)

I am wrestling with biblical forgiveness. I am trying to understand it, but there seems to be so many different views on the issue. My definition of forgiveness is to release an individual from the debt they "owe" you, or that you feel they owe you, because of sin. Forgiveness is to allow any punishment that comes on the individual to be at the hand of God or a justice system rather than one's own will or desire for ill-treatment.

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3. Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?

Any help?

I think the first part of spiritual forgiveness, is allowing a situation to be worked out in God's hands as oppossed to our own. Sometimes when we find ourselves in situations with people who perpetually and purposely try to offend us, we must ask God to remove us..or remove those individuals from our lives..so as we will not be held accountable to having to perpetually forgive them, or put in a persistant situation where we have those same spiritual wounds that have been inflicted on us opened up again and again.

Whatever we do, we should always try to temper our response to them with mercy, and reserve all final judgement to them regarding the offense to God. God bless.

Jake

[BroRog]

Hi all :-)

I am wrestling with biblical forgiveness. I am trying to understand it, but there seems to be so many different views on the issue. My definition of forgiveness is to release an individual from the debt they "owe" you, or that you feel they owe you, because of sin. Forgiveness is to allow any punishment that comes on the individual to be at the hand of God or a justice system rather than one's own will or desire for ill-treatment.

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3. Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?

Any help?

You are raising two issues from what I can tell. Your first question seems to contrast our forgiving those who inflict injustice against us, and what a court does to punish a crime. Your second question centers around our personal relationships and when forgiveness is appropriate.

Forensic justice:

I agree with your first paragraph in that you separate the issue of forensic justice from your own personal forgiveness of the one who injured you. You rightfully acknowledge the difference between the punishment a judge gives, acting as an agent of the state, in response to an injustice he (or she) inflicted on you, and the opportunity you have to stop holding that injustice against him (or her).

Repentance first:

To sort out the issue of repentance as a prerequisite to forgiveness we need to make a distinction between two kinds of "forgiveness": absolution, and the cessation of resentment.

Absolution:

Often times we confuse absolution with forgiveness in that we mistakenly tell other Christians that we must act as if nothing really happened. Though the other has injured us and our pain is real and though an injustice has taken place deserving punishment, we are expected to forgive and forget as if nothing happened.

But we forget that true absolution is not up to us. It is not our place to say or act as if all guilt has been removed from the other party. It is not up to us to say, "I forgive you" and by that mean "you are free of guilt; go in peace." Only God can truly give absolution; it is not our right to do so.

The Cessation of Resentment:

As Christians it is not our place to grant absolution to another person. We are not to say that another person is free of guilt. That is between God and the other person. However, we are obligated to give up our own resentment against another person. Jesus wants us to give up our claim that the other person deserves hell for what they did, and he wants us to give up our resentment toward them. We are to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us.

Giving up our resentment would be easier if those who injure us would repent. But we should not expect repentance to take place before we give up our resentment. Many of us know, from our experience, that repentance may never come; the other person may never apologize or seek our forgiveness. Those who injure us may not ever like us and may remain our enemy for all time. And yet, some of us know, from experience that our unwillingness to give up our resentment can cause us further pain and injury. Hidden resentment can cause depression, anxiety, and pain if we continue to hold a grudge.

And so, in summary, the Christian walk does not require that we look the other way when people injure us. We must always maintain a realistic view of the evil actions of others. What they did was wrong and there is no use denying that fact. And forgiveness does not require us to pretend that it wasn't. And we must not take God's place and attempt to absolve another person of guilt. That is between God and the offending party. But what me must do is give up our claim that God MUST punish the other person and we must give up our resentment even if the other person will not repent.

I think what your Pastor is trying to say is that we should not allow the offending party to interpret our forgiveness is our approval. And I believe that is why many people will recommend that we wait for the other person to repent before we voice our forgiveness to them. We can certainly privately forgive them in our hearts. But we are not obligated to voice that forgiveness to the other person, especially if our saying "I forgive you" might be interpreted by the other person as "What you did was okay with me." It's not okay and we shouldn't give the other person any reason to think it.

[Friend of I AM]

I always like to think of the old saying "fool me once, shame on you..fool me twice..shame on me." So I guess when the issue of forgiveness comes into play, we really have to be as scriptures say "wise as serpents, harmless as doves." That being said, I think it is important for us not to be overly passive regarding our use of forgiveness and love with certain individuals.

I don't think that scriptures are alluding to us saying we are to accept every type of behavior that comes our way and just shrug it off as "no big deal." There are times in life when we must indeed act regarding someone who is perpetually trying to offend us and/or hurt us for no apparent reason other than the fact that they enjoy it and believe the have the power to do so. God bless. Stephen

[Big Jake]

I always like to think of the old saying "fool me once, shame on you..fool me twice..shame on me." So I guess when the issue of forgiveness comes into play, we really have to be as scriptures say "wise as serpents, harmless as doves." That being said, I think it is important for us not to be overly passive regarding our use of forgiveness and love with certain individuals.

I don't think that scriptures are alluding to us saying we are to accept every type of behavior that comes our way and just shrug it off as "no big deal." There are times in life when we must indeed act regarding someone who is perpetually trying to offend us and/or hurt us for no apparent reason other than the fact that they enjoy it and believe the have the power to do so. God bless. Stephen

Good points. I guess sometimes it is necessary to walk away and forgive cautiously, particularly when dealing with people who will often take the kindness and mercy we've extended them for weakness...and quite literally may even stick a knife in our back as we've walked away(as some will most definitely do).

I'd say best thing to do when you're dealing with situations like those, is to pray that God has your rear guard as you're walking through the valley.

[Denny606]

Jesus's thoughts on forgiveness Mattthew 18[21] Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
[22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

[bosco]

Hi FullofQuestions,

Since the Lord Jesus makes no distinction in regard to which men should receive our forgiveness I am of the opinion that He means all men:

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Mt.6:14-15).

In His grace,
Jerry

Agreed, we can't know the heart of a man, thus, we have no way to know for certain that true repentence takes place. Repenting is more than mere words, for how many times do we see a man say he is a Christian and then deny that statement by his lifestyle? So we are to forgive all, even those who wrong us. Eternal choices and lives are on the line, and we must make sure that WE do not become a stumbling block over pride.

Bosco

[9Marksfan]

Hi all :-)

I am wrestling with biblical forgiveness. I am trying to understand it, but there seems to be so many different views on the issue. My definition of forgiveness is to release an individual from the debt they "owe" you, or that you feel they owe you, because of sin. Forgiveness is to allow any punishment that comes on the individual to be at the hand of God or a justice system rather than one's own will or desire for ill-treatment.

What I can't figure out is whether forgiveness is to be towards all who wrong us, or only toward those who repent. My pastor seems to believe it is to be offered to those who repent: Luke 17:3.

The issue is more complex - I think there is a distinction between offering forgiveness and actually forgiving someone. I've been greatly challenged by the subject too - can I recommend that you get hold of an excellent book on the subject that has recently come out - Unpacking Forgiveness by Chris Brauns.

Yet, it seems that we are to forgive everyone in Mark 11:35-38. How do you reconcile these two passages?

Any help?

Sorry - Mk 11:35-38 doesn't exist in my Bible! That citation in both Matthew and Luke doesn't tie in either! Which passage did you mean?

In the meantime, here's Brauns' definition of biblical forgiveness:-

A commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.

Brauns, C, Unpacking Forigveness (Wheaton, IL:Crossway, 2008), p192.

[FullofQuestions]

The issue is more complex - I think there is a distinction between offering forgiveness and actually forgiving someone. I've been greatly challenged by the subject too - can I recommend that you get hold of an excellent book on the subject that has recently come out - Unpacking Forgiveness by Chris Brauns.



Sorry - Mk 11:35-38 doesn't exist in my Bible! That citation in both Matthew and Luke doesn't tie in either! Which passage did you mean?

In the meantime, here's Brauns' definition of biblical forgiveness:-

A commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.

Brauns, C, Unpacking Forigveness (Wheaton, IL:Crossway, 2008), p192.

Sorry, I meant Mark 11:25. Luke 17:4 says ""And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."

You were all very helpful. Thank you!