Dinosaurs

[losthorizon]

I've stated multiple times that it doesn't speak to the age of the sun, but instead to the age of sunlight which, coincidentally, obliterates Eddy's claims. I'm not sure how you keep missing this.

What we keep missing from you after 5 consecutive posts is your evidence that our sun is 4.5 billion years old. All you have done is erect a YEC straw man and then rattle on about the age of sunlight. I simply want to see if you have evidence the sun is 4.5 billion years old as you suggest.

If you think you've got a better solution to what process powers stars other than nuclear fusion I'm all ears. So are pretty much all reputable cosmologists so please, feel free to elaborate. If you have a better explanation you could probably write a book and make quite a good living for yourself.

Oh, I think we have a fusion-powered sun alright - I only pointed out that the historical data and other evidence is still not scientifically conclusive as to how the sun heats itself.

Yay, a quote from one guy in 1967. And? Sorry, that's just not how we actually define the theory of evolution.

LOL - you do know who Dobzhansky was and what the “modern evolutionary synthesis” is – right? His notion that evolution comprises all stages of development in the universe is still alive and well.

[Soupy]

Here's my view on the issue.

There is no theory of evolution, it just doesn't exist. There's only a list of animals that Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

(just wanted to lighten it up a bit).

yes indeed and don't forget that Chuck Norris destroyed the Periodic Table of Elements because the only element Chuck recognises is the "element of surprise"

[Itinerant Lurker]

What we keep missing from you after 5 consecutive posts is your evidence that our sun is 4.5 billion years old. All you have done is erect a YEC straw man and then rattle on about the age of sunlight. I simply want to see if you have evidence the sun is 4.5 billion years old as you suggest.

Already done here.

Oh, I think we have a fusion-powered sun alright - I only pointed out that the historical data and other evidence is still not scientifically conclusive as to how the sun heats itself.

Nonsense.

LOL - you do know who Dobzhansky was and what the “modern evolutionary synthesis” is – right? His notion that evolution comprises all stages of development in the universe is still alive and well.

Hooray for him then. Some people view evolution as a worldview that encompasses all aspects of the physical world, but to apply this view as a definitive description of biological evolution is simply misleading. When someone talks about biological evolution they are not talking about star formation. When someone is discussing the origin of the species they are not necessarily talking about the origin of life.

[losthorizon]

Hooray for him then. Some people view evolution as a worldview that encompasses all aspects of the physical world, but to apply this view as a definitive description of biological evolution is simply misleading. When someone talks about biological evolution they are not talking about star formation. When someone is discussing the origin of the species they are not necessarily talking about the origin of life.

Once again you misunderstand the two terms you use above – your “evolution as a worldview” is Darwinism (metaphysics) and your “biological evolution” is science – big difference between the two terms.

[Itinerant Lurker]

Once again you misunderstand the two terms you use above – your “evolution as a worldview” is Darwinism (metaphysics) and your “biological evolution” is science – big difference between the two terms.

Still seems unduly confusing, which is why the term "evolution" isn't generally used to refer to a worldview but instead to a specific theory within biology distinct from abiogenesis.

[losthorizon]

Still seems unduly confusing, which is why the term "evolution" isn't generally used to refer to a worldview but instead to a specific theory within biology distinct from abiogenesis.

And that is why ‘Darwinism evolution’ is used to include all stages of development in the universe including abiogenesis.

[Asjer]

I see the issue of the dinosaur is turning into an evolutionquarrel-
First I'd like to share some of my thoughts about the evolutiontheory, in studying chemistry - and being very interested in that area. As a result of this i have repeatedly found evidence that points in a very different direction than what is being formed by darwinism
Darwin lived in a time of religious conflicts, his father was a preacher.. and his whole community was religious, in his time there was nothing but religion.. keep this in mind while reading further if u will-
Darwin discovered that all species were of the same sort, but in different kinds. He travelled all over the world with his ship and captured a lot of flies etc. and saw a pattern- after years of research he decided to write on his deathbed his book that forms a principle of science today. He then explained that all animals adapt to their environment, which i agree with completely.. Darwin even implied with his book, that all species came from 2 of the same ancestors. These words of Darwin who in those days was no type of scientist at al, this was in the 18th century.. A time when science didnt exist yet- Even though Darwin had died and he was no scientist people fully rely on the word of his lips to make their goals of 'evolution' come true so they twist the words to their own destruction. Even Darwin wasnt dumb enough to say that man evolved out of chemical soup..

But anyways back to the subject- remember in what order God created the world? in the first three days- heaven, earth , seas, vegetation, luminaries [lightsources]- day 4. the living creatures of heavens and sea, day 5. Genesis 1:24 - 'And God went on to say: "Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind."
day 6 God created man and day 7 He rested. The bible refers mostly in days when it is speaking of a period of time, in this case it is speaking of days according to God- So these heavenly days of the Almighty could very well mean thousands or maybe even millions of years for humans. For it is written in the bible: " 1 second in heaven is equal to a thousand earth years " -

These things aren't so important- Give yourself to God and he will make known the things that really matter! And He will prove himself true till eternity-

[Soupy]

...snip... For it is written in the bible: " 1 second in heaven is equal to a thousand earth years " -

These things aren't so important- Give yourself to God and he will make known the things that really matter! And He will prove himself true till eternity-

gotta a scripture to go with that quote ?

If you're referring or implying "2 Peter 3:8" please read the whole chapter and the context will reveal the truth.

.

[Philemon9]

I see the issue of the dinosaur is turning into an evolutionquarrel-
First I'd like to share some of my thoughts about the evolutiontheory, in studying chemistry - and being very interested in that area. As a result of this i have repeatedly found evidence that points in a very different direction than what is being formed by darwinism
Darwin lived in a time of religious conflicts, his father was a preacher.. and his whole community was religious, in his time there was nothing but religion.. keep this in mind while reading further if u will-
Darwin discovered that all species were of the same sort, but in different kinds. He travelled all over the world with his ship and captured a lot of flies etc. and saw a pattern- after years of research he decided to write on his deathbed his book that forms a principle of science today. He then explained that all animals adapt to their environment, which i agree with completely.. Darwin even implied with his book, that all species came from 2 of the same ancestors. These words of Darwin who in those days was no type of scientist at al, this was in the 18th century.. A time when science didnt exist yet- Even though Darwin had died and he was no scientist people fully rely on the word of his lips to make their goals of 'evolution' come true so they twist the words to their own destruction. Even Darwin wasnt dumb enough to say that man evolved out of chemical soup..

Is this entire paragraph intentionally inaccurate?

[crawfish]

But I have never claimed a Christian cannot place his/her faith in “common descent evolution” – many do. I simply stated the truth – Darwinism is a naturalistic-atheist worldview that does not allow god-talk. Did God act supernaturally in the creation of life on this planet?

I answer a question with a question: is God any less involved in the natural than He is with the supernatural? If we can explain, test and repeat something, does that take away from the glory of God?

Personally, I think it would be a mistake to assume anything has a purely supernatural explanation for something in the physical world, to assume that God did not accomplish that using a means we can figure out.

I'm not talking about Darwinism, by the way. I'm talking about common descent evolution. Might as well get our terms straight.

Again, no one on this thread denies biological evolution (science) but many do correctly reject what you term “macro evolution” as a failed and untested hypothesis. I have requested you provide verifiable evidence on this thread to prove theropods magically morphed into birds “over a long period of time” and you provided a few off-site sources that proved nothing.

You are the one making the extraordinary claim here – that rocks became you and me. The burden is on you to support that claim with verifiable evidence - evidence you claim to have but cannot locate. Have you found it yet? If yes present it.

I am the one accepting the scientifically accepted claim - you are the one rejecting it. And I am not claiming that we came from rocks (I haven't made any claim about accepting a particular form of biogenesis). I haven't even claimed that theropods evolved into birds, only that it is a theory and the ToE as a whole doesn't depend on it. You can put words in my mouth all you want, but that won't make it so.

I will respectfully disagree - common descent evolution is a failed and untested hypothesis that requires much faith – at least as much faith as believing God created in the beginning.

Then it should be ridiculously easy for ID proponents to prove it false. I look forward to hearing what they say.

[fishbowlsoul]

Once again you misunderstand the two terms you use above – your “evolution as a worldview” is Darwinism (metaphysics) and your “biological evolution” is science – big difference between the two terms.

Can tell me the origin of the word Darwinism? Who first coined it?
I know when trying to apply a negative reaction to a particular idea that adding the suffix -ism to the idea sometimes works with the general public. This comes out of Politics 101 playbook.

The point being is in YEC circles the word Darwinism has been coined to create a negative reaction to the science of old universe/old earth. It does not matter that there is no such idea as Darwinisn in science at all.

[th1bill]

But anyways back to the subject- remember in what order God created the world? in the first three days- heaven, earth , seas, vegetation, luminaries [lightsources]- day 4. the living creatures of heavens and sea, day 5. Genesis 1:24 - 'And God went on to say: "Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind."
day 6 God created man and day 7 He rested. The bible refers mostly in days when it is speaking of a period of time, in this case it is speaking of days according to God- So these heavenly days of the Almighty could very well mean thousands or maybe even millions of years for humans. For it is written in the bible: " 1 second in heaven is equal to a thousand earth years " -

...Well, poofah... go spit in the bucket before I do! Here ir is...almost 9pm.
... Nope, I refuse to sit here for the next hour or making certain I have it all in the proper oder. I still still carry my CDL and that 40' peanut box is strapped onto the Pete...
... Thanks Hutch, I don't have enough left to pull me up here any more with out someone using the lift so I can make it. Give me a cup of that 40 weight and well get out this Post #163 and as soon as I see a big enough hole, right after Crawfish, And we'll test this new ram and see if we can put the moon's eye out.
... Later, thanks again Hutch, now if you can toss me back in that wheel chair I'll go get some shut-eye before Church in the morning and maybe, just maybe Asjer will not let the next man fil im full of hot air with out demaning to see the proof.
... If I could slip it past my LORD, I'd start dippin' Snuff again, just so these young'uns would remember when I get to spittin'.

Asjjer,
... All grey headed Texas humor aside here the final post, in this string, on the issue of what state and what condition the word, 'DAY' when God spoke it one day about four thousand years ago, to Mosses. Don't get caught with your hiney on the wind and research, please.

... I'm sorry but a study of the words in the Strong's Dictionary destroys, in my honest opinion, you attempt to sell the Gap Theory. And I just fail to see the relevance of the gap theory in respect to the dinosaurs any way.
... Here is the Strong's information anyway;

from the Strong's Hebrew dictionary
was
A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, that is, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X all together, be (- come, accomplished, committed, like), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen,X have, last pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

the Hebrew word pronounced haw-yaw is translate was once and translated 'be' twice in the first six verse.

without form
From an unused root meaning to lie in waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) naught, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

the Hebrew word is pronounced to'-hoo

... Now, about those lost dinosaurs... the Gap Theory totally rules them into the time of man. First God separated the waters, the clouds from the Earth bound oceans and He did not separate the oceans until verse nine, on the third day. So we have God dividing the water, on the face of the Earth on day three, on day five He creates the dinos, the whales and all the lessor animals. Then on day six He creates mankind.
... The word for a day is the Hebrew word meaning dark until dark, a single twenty-four hour day. followinng this line of thought the dinosaur, for all of his size, only lived twenty-four hours?

[Athanasius]

Yeah... That's enough of this. I'm going to be Mr. Popular again and close this thread.