The Conscience

[crossnote]

I know one thing. What cleanses our guilty consciences? Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
(Heb 9:14)

[Walstib]

My thought would be that the conscience itself is some sort of intangible force that we believe is guiding us throughout this life. The thought has often been given in scripture, that having a clear conscience unto itself is generally what purifies us during this walk.

Here I would say I see a danger of thinking the conscience is separate from our self. I have been reasoning lately that it is a faculty of our spirit. The faculty though which we receive the knowledge of good and evil. So intangible I would agree, force a word I don't think I would use.

However, we see in scripture..that having a clear conscience..doesn't necessarily denote liberty or freedom.

Take for example someone who is sociopathic. Their conscience may be very clear..but their heart is bent on doing wicked things. Thus, my thought would be that having a clear conscience..is only beneficial when one has a compassionate - loving heart. Without a compassionate/loving heart to go with a clear conscience..we generally find that an individual is very adept to doing anything to benefit self, even those things which are utterly detestable to God and may cause harm to others, caring little about what consequences they may inadvertently bring about in the process.

I read this and I think of my life before I believed that Jesus is Lord. I was a practicing thief and liar among many other things. Part of my testimony of coming to faith has to do with being questioned by the police for a break and enter that I was guilty of. I remember telling myself for years I had no conscience, yet I also know I was absolutely miserable inside and in turmoil. What I am saying is that no matter how much I tried to convince myself my conscience did not function or for that matter was clean about what I was doing I know now the evidence was there that I was just fooling myself.

Now this is just my testimony to be taken with a grain of salt, yet my point is that I believe a conscience functions properly at all times no matter how much one ignores it or tries to convince themselves it is clean. A seared conscience functions and exists I think, it is only by great effort of the person that it is ignored. Quite similar I believe to quenching the Holy Spirit. As posted later on in this thread the blood of Jesus is what truly cleans a conscience. This said I also believe it is an ongoing process through my failings and the Lord's discipline.

In Peace,
Joe

[Big Jake]

Here I would say I see a danger of thinking the conscience is separate from our self.

Opinion noted, however, I think it's dangerous to define the foundations of conscience as being self motivated. I think there are intrinsic spiritual values that are embedded on one's concience by God, and then after that there is an aspect of conscience that God allows man to utilize for his own pleasure within this life. If the foundations of conscience were entirely based on self interest, then we would really live in a crazy world. People could do whatever they pleased without any foundational moral compass guiding them.

[Just_Another_Guy]

Opinion noted, however, I think it's dangerous to define the foundations of conscience as being self motivated. I think there are intrinsic spiritual values that are embedded on one's concience by God, and then after that there is an aspect of conscience that God allows man to utilize for his own pleasure within this life. If the foundations of conscience were entirely based on self interest, then we would really live in a crazy world. People could do whatever they pleased without any foundational moral compass guiding them.

I'm going to simplify this a bit..and say "walking in the spirit" is demonstrative in walking in a clear conscience. Those things of the spirit that bring about righteousnous, peace, good will, humility before God and men, etc..are those things which represent a clear conscience. Or to simplify even further, if our intent is to truly do what is right in God's eyes within our walk..we are walking with a clear conscience.

[Walstib]

Opinion noted, however, I think it's dangerous to define the foundations of conscience as being self motivated. I think there are intrinsic spiritual values that are embedded on one's conscience by God, and then after that there is an aspect of conscience that God allows man to utilize for his own pleasure within this life. If the foundations of conscience were entirely based on self interest, then we would really live in a crazy world. People could do whatever they pleased without any foundational moral compass guiding them.

I may have been misunderstood by you here. I think I agree with you here for the most part and am speaking to a different point.

I would make a comparison to an eye. The eye exists as part of the body but does see anything without light. God being needed for the conscience to be illuminated. That said God's light fills the whole of creation I think. The voice of the conscience being the information transmitted by the eye itself rather than light that reveals the picture.

If the "voice" is not God Himself and it is not from our self it becomes this separate entity I would not know how to describe or what kind of possession it reminds me of. The same as making the flesh into a separate entity from our self I think.

The voice of the flesh being self motivated and earthly as the voice of the spirit being God motivated and spiritual. *The conscience being called the voice of the spirit not to be confused with the voice of the Holy Spirit.* With the mind making the decisions it is not like three selfs but still one self.

I am just kind of persnickety about any wording that makes a person into more than one self at the essence level. I guess to me it is like trying to separate the essence of the Godhead.

Peace,
Joe