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Thread: He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

  1. #1

    He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

    Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

    The subject is stated in the verb as third person singular which lends the "he" to the Hebrew, but the nature of the verb is interesting.

    While gabar is translated as confirm (which is a variation of make firm) it does not denote the same kind of action you're reading into the positive connotation of 'confirm.'

    Incidentally, karat which is the word we read as 'cut off' can be used in Daniel as it is in Genesis 15:18 to cut or make a covenant because of the slaughter of animals was a part of the covenant ritual -Speiser, Genesis, in AB, p. 112; BA 34:18 - Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament p. 457

    Confirm comes from the Hebrew word gabar. gabar means prevail, be mighty, have strength, be great.


    "In Arabic, the basic meaning of the root is "to rise, raise, restore," with the idea of being strong, or prevailing over coming only in the derived stems. That the Hebrew may share a similar range of meaning is seen in the Hithpael where the idea is not so much to make oneself prevail over God, as it is to raise oneself up in arrogance and stand in his face (Job 15:25, 36:9; Isa 42:13). The Hebrew root is commonly associated with warfare and has to do with the strength and vitality of the successful warrior." - Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament p. 148; Harris, Archer and Waltke; Moody Press; 1980.

    gabar in Daniel 9:27 is in the Hiphil stem showing a causative action (He causes the covenant to be forced through) and perfect conjugation indicating a simple, completed action.

    Jesus was cut off, which is that sacrificial end which ransoms many.
    Jesus did not force anything; thus the subject is not Christ, but the ruler who will come who comes from those who did destroy the Temple in A.D. 70.

    To give an example of how the one 'seven' is forced through is this little news snippet: ( http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/...ast/israel.php )
    Javier Solana, foreign policy chief for the European Union, said in Brussels on Monday that the bloc would reconsider its relationship with Israel if it did not remain committed to establishing a Palestinian state.
    Other examples of gabar might be seen when Israelis forced Israelis out of Gaza because of the terms of the "Roadmap."

    Watch what is going on in Israel.

    Mark

  2. #2
    Go back to the start of the chapter. What would you say is the reason that Daniel was supplicating?

    Then look at why Gabriel came to talk to Daniel.


    daniel 9:2
    and 9:23
    and the "he" of 9:27

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleiosis View Post
    Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

    Here is another way of understanding and interpretting 'confirm' from that verse.

    It only uses the NT to explain the fulfillment of the OT prophecy.

    OT Prophecy:

    • 1) Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity...
    • 2) Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...
    • 3) Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...
    • 4) Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...



    NT Fulfillment of OT Prophecy:



    • 1) "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; he had by himself purged our sins" John 4:34, 17:4, Rom 5:10, Heb 1:3
    • 2) "The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. " John 4:25
    • 3) "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures" I Corinthians 15:3
    • 4) "Then he said, 'This blood confirms the covenant God has made with you.' And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ". This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Hebrews 9:20, Galatians 3:17, Mark 14:24, Hebrews 10:2

  4. #4
    The New Covenant Jesus made with the Disciples was not for just seven years.

    Reading "confirm" in the English with its positive connotation can, taken alone, can lead to confusing just who forces through the covenant to realization spoken of by Gabriel.

    Remember: the one 'seven' completes the seventy 'sevens' which is all about Jesus and Jesus is fully involved in the end-times which is still to come.

    Jesus even references the one 'seven' apart from His ministry to Daniel in Daniel 12. Jesus is the Man in Linen - and I can say this because Daniel adopts a formal position of worship and is not corrected by the Man in Linen. Since Angels will not accept the worship of men due God, the Man in Linen is not an agent of God, but God Himself: i.e., Jesus.

    Daniel is to go his way until the end which is mentioned in Daniel 12:1. That is the same resurrection we await when the Dead in Christ rise. Furthermore, Jesus alludes to Daniel's people as being those who are resurrected in the first resurrection - those in the Book of Life of which we are a part.

    So, the seventy 'sevens' is also for us in that we are Daniel's people as well - as defined by Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleiosis View Post
    The New Covenant Jesus made with the Disciples was not for just seven years.
    Your correct...its wasn't limited to 7 years. It was confirmed however, within the last 7-year set; in the midst of the 70th year; which began after Jesus was cut-off; and He stopped sacrifice and offering by offering Himself.

  6. #6
    Daniel 11:21
    "Then shall stand up a vile person..."
    v 23
    "And after the league made with him..."


    Daniel 9:27
    "And he shall confirm the covenant with many..."

  7. #7
    Undersanding that the lxx is not the scriptures I still use it as a reference tool, Dan. 9:26-27 in the lxx goes this way

    After the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgement in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they sahll be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations. And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offerings shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time shall be shall be put to the desolation.

    The references to the sacrifice and drink offerings may be refering to the passover and the feast of first fruits at least I believe they are. Theres a logical procession of the prophecy, from Jerusalem to be restored to the destruction of the temple by the prince that God appointed. The covenant spoken of is Christ as refered to in Isaiah 42:6 ..'I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles.' Malachi calls Him the Messenger of the covenant. The gentiles as well as Christ lost sheep of Irael are the many I think. Isa. 53:11 says the Righteous servant shall justify many and He will bear their iniquities, Matt. 20:28 Christ says He came for the ransom of many, there are more that state the Christ is the covenant for the many.
    How can this covenant be made by the antichrist in light of Isaiah? I see this covenant being confirmed or renewed by Christ to Israel as promised and spoken of in Jer. and 'that He should be made manifest to Israel' according to John 1:31 and who now is also a light to the gentiles having been grafted in. The overspreading of the abominations simply may be the continued sacrifice even after He gave Himself as the final sacrifice for sin.

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    Just briefly,

    The covenant confirmed in Daniel 9 is the 70 weeks of years decreed in the context of the chapter [for Daniel's people only]:

    It is the Lord who will confirm the covenant by executing the 70th week decreed which is still future [there is a breach in the scope of visionary prophecy between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th .... there is nothing of earthly events recorded in the visions during the breach]

    The other prince cannot confirm this covenant which will involve the 6 objectives listed for the believing remnant part of Israel who will be living at the time

    Neither is this covenant some sort of peace treaty between the other prince and Israel

    Here is how the passage should be understood regarding the Lord and the other prince:

    1.The Messiah Prince shall be cut off at the end of the 69th week [this time lapse has transpired ending in about 33 A.D.]

    2.The other prince and his people will come and invade Israel, destroy, occupy, and desolate for 42 months [last half of the tribulation period]

    [this was not the Romans in 70 A.D. .... 70 A.D. was not the time of the end]

    1.And He [Jesus Christ] will confirm the covenant for one 7 [the 70th week .... He will be involved with the entire period, but not seen by the world .... He will appear to the world, but not until the end of the 70th week .... the tribulation period]

    2.And he [the other prince] will cause Jewish worship to cease, overspread with abominations, and desolate [Zechariah 14:1-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-22; Revelation 11:2]

    The Lord will then destroy the kingdom of satan's beast [the other prince] and followers in 30 days just following the end of the 2,520 days of the 70th week [Ezekiel 38, 39; Daniel 11:45, 12:11-12; Micah 5; Revelation 16]

    The next 45 days will involve the Lord's gathering and separating of the mortal survivors of the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31; MAtthew 25:31-46]

    Those found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom on the earth

    Those found in unbelief will be rejected
    Stephen

    2Peter
    1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1 View Post
    Just briefly,

    The covenant confirmed in Daniel 9 is the 70 weeks of years decreed in the context of the chapter [for Daniel's people only]:

    It is the Lord who will confirm the covenant by executing the 70th week decreed which is still future

    The other prince cannot confirm this covenant which will involve the 6 objectives listed for the believing remnant part of Israel who will be living at the time

    Neither is this covenant some sort of peace treaty between the other prince and Israel

    Here is how the passage should be understood regarding the Lord and the other prince:

    1.The Messiah Prince shall be cut off at the end of the 69th week [this time lapse has transpired ending in about 33 A.D.]

    2.The other prince and his people will come and invade Israel, destroy, occupy, and desolate for 42 months [last half of the tribulation period]

    [this was not the Romans in 70 A.D. .... 70 A.D. was not the time of the end]

    1.And He [Jesus Christ] will confirm the covenant for one 7 [the 70th week]

    2.And he [the other prince] will cause Jewish worship to cease, overspread with abominations, and desolate [Note; Revelation 11:2]
    Maybe I misunderstood your post... but it seems like you contradicted your opening statement.... which was, " The covenant confirmed in Daniel 9 is the 70 weeks of years decreed in the context of the chapter [for Daniel's people only]: "

    If this Seventy Sevens were for Daniel's people only, how can we STILL be waiting for the 70th week? Wouldn't that indicate that these weeks were continuous, with no gap?

    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Daniel writes that the time is determined; as in a set, specific amount of time.
    And the purpose? To bring and end to sin, reconcile iniquities, Bring in EVERLASTING righteousness and annoint the most Holy...

    Who is "the most Holy"?
    Who is the only one who can bring in everlasting righteousness?

    Yes, Jesus.

    And he was "cut off in the midst of the 70th week" Just as Daniel Prophesied.... thus FULFILLING Daniel's prophecy.

    Daniel was told to SEAL UP the vision because the time was "far off"... and only when the time was near /at hand, would it be unsealed.

    Well..... my question to those doubting the fulfillment of the prophecy is this: When was Daniel's prophecy unsealed?
    It's been quite a while......

    So, if it was supposed to be sealed until the time was near fulfillment, wouldn't that indicate to us that it MUST HAVE been fulfilled shortly after his vision was opened & made known?

    That doesn't fit with the idea of an unfulfilled, still future completion of the 70th week & prophecy.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    _______________________________________________
    There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
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    Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

  10. #10
    So far, I have to say I still disagree with all the "solutions" offered which either has Jesus "confirming" the one 'seven' either on the cross as some of you want to put it in the past - or in the future.

    One who is like God does not arise until the midpoint abomination. That is a literal reading of Daniel 12:1.
    DA 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise."
    The time that Michael arises is after Dan 11:45 which corresponds to Luke 21:20 - it is the time of the midpoint eve when the anti-Christ, having invaded the Holy Land surrounds Jerusalem before entering the Temple.

    Again, the problem with Jesus "confirming" anything is that you are all reading into a very bad translation of the Hebrew word 'gabar.' You all are making gabar out to be a nice, comforting word, and gabar is anything but nice. It aptly describes the powerplay the anti-Christ makes to propel himself to godhood.

    For those that want to take a partial preterist position, that is refuted by the sequence-of-events contained in Daniel 9:26.


    There are three things which happen between the sixty-two 'sevens' and the one 'seven' and they are:
    1. The Messiah is cut off
    2. The city and the sanctuary are destroyed
    3. Wars continue
    Now as a last condition, war has been continuing since the time of Christ until now. The one 'seven' has not yet begun and when it begins it will be because the anti-Christ, or the ruler who will come (from the same people who destroyed the Temple; i.e. Roman - as is the last part of Nebuchadnezzar's statue) or the little horn, or the beast of a man, or any of the other means by which this Man of Lawlessness is mentioned in the Bible - forces through a covenant, an agreement with many - ostensibly with Israel because Jerusalem is one of the two foci for Gabriel's prophecy.

    This gap in prophecy can be illustrated:



    Jesus does not use military force on the Day of the Lord to rescue us.
    He will, however, trample out His Wrath with an army on the second half of the Day of the Lord.

    However, to say that Jesus in any way "forces" the one 'seven' to begin misses the point.

    God is holding the Man of Perdition back by the Spirit; one is standing in the midst. God determines when the time comes for this beast of man to vault upon the world stage and literally take over for the first half of the one 'seven.' Furthermore, it is God who allows the anti-Christ to have authority for the first half - 42 months and it is to this beast of a man to whom we are handed over like Jesus was to the Romans.

    The covenant with many is necessary for peace in the Middle East so Israel can build the Temple.

    It is this peace that the anti-Christ violates with the "feet" of the bear which is part of the fourth terrible beast he controls. This is the Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel. This is when the peaceful land of whitewashed walls is invaded. This is when the anti-Christ surrounds Jerusalem and subsequently enters the city and the Temple.

    It is then - at the midpoint - that the false prophet, ostensibly of Israel because he controls the Temple - erects and presents the abomination - the talking image of the anti-Christ.

    And all this is done by force - gabar. Nothing is "confirmed." No, it is put through by political and military might and ultimately by the self-will of a beast of a man possessed by evil.

  11. #11
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    MD,

    "If this Seventy Sevens were for Daniel's people only, how can we STILL be waiting for the 70th week? Wouldn't that indicate that these weeks were continuous, with no gap?"

    >Have you noticed that Daniel's people are still round today?

    >There is a reason for it

    >I will give you one of them:

    Jeremiah
    30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

    30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

    30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

    30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

    30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

    30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

    30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

    30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

    30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

    30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

    30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

    30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

    30:13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

    30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

    30:15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

    30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

    30:17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.

    30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

    30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

    30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

    30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

    30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

    30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.

    30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider

    >One must also understand this: the incoming of the Gentiles into the Body of Christ is still in process .... only when complete will the Lord begin the 70th week decreed for Daniel's people

    Romans
    11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

    11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

    11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

    11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

    11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

    11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

    11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

    11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

    11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

    11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

    11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
    Stephen

    2Peter
    1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleiosis View Post
    So far, I have to say I still disagree with all the "solutions" offered which either has Jesus "confirming" the one 'seven' either on the cross as some of you want to put it in the past - or in the future.

    One who is like God does not arise until the midpoint abomination. That is a literal reading of Daniel 12:1.
    DA 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise."
    The time that Michael arises is after Dan 11:45 which corresponds to Luke 21:20 - it is the time of the midpoint eve when the anti-Christ, having invaded the Holy Land surrounds Jerusalem before entering the Temple.

    Again, the problem with Jesus "confirming" anything is that you are all reading into a very bad translation of the Hebrew word 'gabar.' You all are making gabar out to be a nice, comforting word, and gabar is anything but nice. It aptly describes the powerplay the anti-Christ makes to propel himself to godhood.

    For those that want to take a partial preterist position, that is refuted by the sequence-of-events contained in Daniel 9:26.



    There are three things which happen between the sixty-two 'sevens' and the one 'seven' and they are:
    1. The Messiah is cut off
    2. The city and the sanctuary are destroyed
    3. Wars continue
    Now as a last condition, war has been continuing since the time of Christ until now. The one 'seven' has not yet begun and when it begins it will be because the anti-Christ, or the ruler who will come (from the same people who destroyed the Temple; i.e. Roman - as is the last part of Nebuchadnezzar's statue) or the little horn, or the beast of a man, or any of the other means by which this Man of Lawlessness is mentioned in the Bible - forces through a covenant, an agreement with many - ostensibly with Israel because Jerusalem is one of the two foci for Gabriel's prophecy.

    This gap in prophecy can be illustrated:



    Jesus does not use military force on the Day of the Lord to rescue us.
    He will, however, trample out His Wrath with an army on the second half of the Day of the Lord.

    However, to say that Jesus in any way "forces" the one 'seven' to begin misses the point.

    God is holding the Man of Perdition back by the Spirit; one is standing in the midst. God determines when the time comes for this beast of man to vault upon the world stage and literally take over for the first half of the one 'seven.' Furthermore, it is God who allows the anti-Christ to have authority for the first half - 42 months and it is to this beast of a man to whom we are handed over like Jesus was to the Romans.

    The covenant with many is necessary for peace in the Middle East so Israel can build the Temple.

    It is this peace that the anti-Christ violates with the "feet" of the bear which is part of the fourth terrible beast he controls. This is the Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel. This is when the peaceful land of whitewashed walls is invaded. This is when the anti-Christ surrounds Jerusalem and subsequently enters the city and the Temple.

    It is then - at the midpoint - that the false prophet, ostensibly of Israel because he controls the Temple - erects and presents the abomination - the talking image of the anti-Christ.

    And all this is done by force - gabar. Nothing is "confirmed." No, it is put through by political and military might and ultimately by the self-will of a beast of a man possessed by evil.
    Actually, Daniel's "Abomination" was fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes III.
    If you read about the historic significance involving him, you'll understand JUST HOW BIG a deal it was to the Jews; And why it was so significant when Jesus referred back to it in the Olivet Discourse.

    Also- You mentioned the following:
    For those that want to take a partial preterist position, that is refuted by the sequence-of-events contained in Daniel 9:26.



    There are three things which happen between the sixty-two 'sevens' and the one 'seven' and they are:
    1. The Messiah is cut off
    2. The city and the sanctuary are destroyed
    3. Wars continue
    Between "week 69 & 70"

    1. -Yep. Fulfilled 2000+ years ago.
    2. -Yep. Fulfilled in A.D. 70
    3. -Yep. Plenty of wars continued on... Look at what the Apostles had to face in their final days.

    And again, Why was the vision sealed, & only to be opened when the prophecy was near fulfillment?

    Seventy Sevens represented a specific time frame of 490 years. (Note the "determined" amount of time)

    You mention this as well: "Now as a last condition, war has been continuing since the time of Christ until now. The one 'seven' has not yet begun, and when it begins it will be because the anti-Christ..."

    Also, How can the last seven NOT have begun, when the last seven includes the Messiah being cut off in the last seven??? (Which even you indicated as already happened.)

    How can Jesus have been cut off DURING the seventieth week, ... yet the seventieth week has not yet begun?

    Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    _______________________________________________
    There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

  13. #13
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    I believe that the text states that Jesus Messiah will arrive after 69 weeks have been completed.

    69 weeks until Messiah......leaves 1 week to do his work.
    Did Jesus come and do nothing?
    No, he accomplished all 6 objectives, and the Gospel was born so Gentiles could be grafted solidly into Gods plan for his elect.

    Scripture defines the moment of Messiah's arrival as Jesus Baptism, and the beginning of his work to achieve atonement for all flesh.
    It is finished and he has conquered.

    "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
    26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing
    After the 7 and 62 weeks puts his crucifixtion and work in the 70th week by 3 1/2 years.

    John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.
    33 "I did not recognize Him[I.e. as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me,
    'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
    34 "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teleiosis View Post
    Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'

    The subject is stated in the verb as third person singular which lends the "he" to the Hebrew, but the nature of the verb is interesting.

    While gabar is translated as confirm (which is a variation of make firm) it does not denote the same kind of action you're reading into the positive connotation of 'confirm.'
    This is quite simple really.
    1)At the point of the 69th seven, the anointed one comes. This is the start of Jesus' ministry.
    until the Anointed One, [g] the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens
    2) At the point of the 69th seven, the covenant is confirmed.
    He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [i] In the middle of the 'seven' [j] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

    So if at the same point of the 70 sevens timeline, at the 69th seven, two events are supposed to happen, we don't need to look for a huge gap in his timeline if we can find some significant fulfilment for the Jews back then.

    At the time Jesus started His ministry was there anyone who confirmed any covenant with the Jews at that moment? YES , JESUS!

    Jesus' ministry was the fulfilment of God's promise to the Jews to send them a Messiah to set them free. Jesus fulfilled this, Jesus confirmed the covenant. 3.5 years later Jesus was the final sacrfice, putting an end to all sacrifices acceptable to God, fulfilling this part: In the middle of the 'seven' [j] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

    It is at this stage that we have a gap. It is at this point that prophecy stops being fulfilled. Jesus himself said that the future short period would BEGIN with the abomination. Many future predicted time periods involve only 3.5 years and not 7 years. Most translations have the person who confirms the covenant.... "he", with a SEPARATE IDENTITY to the person who sets up the abomination... "one".

    This expectation of an antichrist who will confirm a seven year covenant with Israel is a fallacy, he will simply take over Israel, and then set up an abomination for 3.5 years.

  15. #15
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    Daniel 11:21-35 is the prediction of the exact career of Antiochus IV

    Then the vision jumps to the time of the end [note 11:35]

    Daniel 11:36-45 and 12:7 present the little horn, king of the northern Middle East and his rise to power and rule during the 70th week which is still future

    The he in 12:7 is this king of the north .... this king will invade and occupy Israel for the second 1,260 days of the tribulation period

    It will take first 1,260 days for him to rise, conquer his opposition, and the rule

    Chapters 9 and 12 are specifically about Daniel's people at the time of the end ... not the church [Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are all a focus upon Israel .... not the church]

    All of these things are of the 70th week which is still pending and one must account for all of the actions listed in 11:36-45 which have never taken place in the past

    All will transpire during the coming 70th week .... the tribulation period

    The little horn does not confirm the covenant of the 70 weeks of years .... the Lord does

    ..... by executing the 70th week and completing the 6 objectives that will be reached for Daniel's people ... the believing remnant part of Israel .... at the time of the end

    Israel is still in unbelief today and this is going to change

    The nation rejected and still rejects their Messiah and King, Jesus Christ

    A remnant part will turn and believe during the future 70th week and the Lord will restore the kingdom to Israel

    This little horn, king of the northern Middle East, [note: Micah 5 ... the Assyrian] is the human component of satan's beast from the abyss [the first beast of revelation who will rule the Middle East with 10 other kings

    All of the following events are scheduled for the future 70th week and did not take place in the first century [Zechariah 14 views the same and none of the events of the vision took place in the first century]

    Daniel
    11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

    It will take 1,260 days for this king to rise, conquer, and then rule for the next 1,260 days

    Daniel
    11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

    11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

    11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

    11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

    11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

    11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

    11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

    11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

    11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

    12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

    12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he [the little horn, king of the north viewed in 11:36-45] shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished [the first 1,260 days of the tribulation period].

    12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things [the results of Israel's conquering .... the next 1,260 day rule of the little horn over Israel]?

    12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

    12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

    12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days [the second 1,260 days + 30 days]. [the 30 days will invove the Lord's destruction of the little horn and his followers]

    12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. [the added 45 days will involve the gathering of the mortals who will survive the tribulation period ..... first the elect of Daniel's people, and then of the nations

    12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
    Stephen

    2Peter
    1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

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