Can you really say you forgive someone if you dont trust them?

[HisLove]

I guess I'm trying to understand this from the way God forgives us through His Son Jesus Christ. Because we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and repent of our sins, God forgives us, but where does trust fit in? How does God trust that we are genuine in our repenting? By our obedience? and the fruits of our labor? And in terms towards our relationship with other people who we need to forgive, how can I apply this to them? After I forgive them, do they need to be "obedient" or "bear fruit" to gain back that trust? Is this how I should see my relationship with God too?

[crossnote]

I guess I'm trying to understand this from the way God forgives us through His Son Jesus Christ. Because we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and repent of our sins, God forgives us, but where does trust fit in? How does God trust that we are genuine in our repenting? By our obedience? and the fruits of our labor? And in terms towards our relationship with other people who we need to forgive, how can I apply this to them? After I forgive them, do they need to be "obedient" or "bear fruit" to gain back that trust? Is this how I should see my relationship with God too?

God has already forgiven us in Christ Jesus. We receive His forgiveness through repentance and faith in His Son's death for us.
God trusts that it is genuine because it (repentance and faith) is a work of His from start to finish besides, He knows our hearts and thoughts before we think them. He works in us both to do and to will of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13
Forgiveness should always be seen as a gift of a humongous debt paid that we could never repay. If God forgave such a huge debt to us how much more should we be forgiving to one another whose debts are miniscule in comparison.

[Rumely]

God doesn't have to "trust" us. He knows our every thought, intention, emotion, and deed. He knows whether we are sincere or not. He not only knows our weaknesses and failings, He knows exactly when, where, and how these will play out. "Trust" is a human concept. We make certain projections about another's intentions and probable behavior based on many factors: experiences with this person, things we have been told about this person, experiences with people who share certain characteristics with this person, wishful thinking, illusions, delusions, our own emotional baggage, and the list goes on. Trust, essentially, is something that happens in the absence of absolute certainty. God knows us with absolute certainty. It is we who, in our human limitations, come to trust in Him.

We can forgive others, but in human relationships trust is earned. If, for instance, someone embezzles funds from their employer, the employer may choose to forgive him and refrain from pressing charges, but he would be foolish to keep him on as an accountant. If your best friend stabbed you in the back, you may forgive her, but you wouldn't put yourself in a position of vulnerability with her again until she has established a pattern of trustworthiness. Forgiveness and trust are really two separate issues.

[*Hope*]

God doesn't need to see "fruit" (fruit is evidence to the world, not to God). God knows our hearts. His forgiveness is not based on our deeds, it is based on His mercy, grace, and love.

On the other hand, as human beings, we cannot see someone else's heart. We can only see their "fruit". While we are commanded to forgive others, we are not commanded to trust them. If a man raped my sister, I am commanded to forgive him but I am not required to trust him by any stretch of the imagination. There are STILL consequences for sin. Part of the consequences people must face for their actions is how their sin can sever relationships. That doesn't mean we can hold on to bitterness or be unforgiving. But we must trust that God will take care of them. God is the only one in any position to forgive or withold forgiveness.

[kayte]

The others that have answered are absolutely right. Forgiveness and trust are two different issues. We're instructed to be as gentle as doves and wise as serpents. In many cases we would be completely foolish to trust, such as Hope mentioned, to a rapist.

And as was addressed, God doesn't 'trust' us. He knows our hearts, inside out and Him forgiving us isn't based on Him trusting us to never do wrong again. Actually, He knows we will. We are forgiven based on Who He is. That's also the basis of how we forgive others... because of Who He is, and knowing full well, who we are.

[Bob Carabbio]

"Trust" isn't related to Forgiveness - which is a "Decision of your will" that YOU make to "Rip up the I.O.U." that you're holding against the person you need to forgive.

But YOUR forgiveness doesn't change THEM - it only releases you from being in bondage to them.

If they couldn't be trusted BEFORE - they probably still can't, and you'd be a fool to "extend trust" where you know it won't be handles properly.

I Love my older daughter, and I've forgiven her. But when she visits,

In God's economy ANYTHING that's not TESTED, and found to be "solid" - doesn't really exist at all.

Jesus says - IF you love me - do my will. it ain't about "Pretty words" and "dedication ceremonies". Your love is ONLY "Real" if it produces obedience.

Consider Abraham's series of events - from only partial obedience in the beginning, all the way to being willing to off his son. - it took YEARS but established his obedience in the long run.

And "Forgiveness" is a WHOLE 'nuther thing.

[djh22]

Yea Bob, I totally agree with all of that.

djh22.

[Quickened]

As the Lord works with you and sactifies you and you grow in the knowledge and wisdom of the Word you will put forth fruit.

I dont put a seed into a ground and immediate water it expecting results. All things take time and that amount of time is undetermined. We see many things in believers lives throughout the course of history. When paul was converted he spent days in prayer, regained his sight and started working for the Lord. (Granted he was an apostile). Jonah on the other hand wasnt so willing to go along with God's plan.

But Jonahs is a good example. God's soverign will directs the universe. All that he does is good and just. If he wills something in your life in will all happen in due time. Be that repentence or perhaps forgiving others.

There is no clear cut time table for repentence. It is an ongoing process. When we realize we are sinning against a Just and Holy God we will be quickened to this sin and be called to repent of this. Somethings are easier then others. This board is a testimony to that. In my years here i have seen saints overcome great temptations right away and i have seen saints struggle with issues for a time and a season. Repentence is an ongoing process. We are called to persevere and finish the race.

The Christian walk is ongoing and we are always be comformed to God's image all at different paces.

With forgiving others its relatively easy. We are to forgive as Christ has forgiven us our sins by his atoning work on the cross. We might still be mad at someone or we might be hurt, thats part of our human wiring. We arent called to trust but to forgive. To recognize that someone else has sinned against you and forgive them as Christ has forgiven you.

Trust me, Christ will forgive you personally for more sins then you will ever have to forgive any human. If this is not so then we should fall to our knees immediately and confess that we still are sinful. Be it pride, gossip or any such thing. Let us forgive others as Christ has forgiven us.