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Thread: Why Do Old Things Not Die

  1. #1
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    Why Do Old Things Not Die

    A change of reality has taken place and the carnal mind keeps retarding us to old things. Behold you are new creature and everything old has passed away or passing away.

    Why do we keep denegrating ourselves. A person who is born again is no longer a gentile, unless they are still one by their own choice mentally and emotionally. This would mean that we continue to identify ourselves with old things according to flesh. A gentile by definition means a heathen without a relationship with the true God.

    A saint has a relationship with the true God, hence who they are and everything about their identity has changed. They have become a completely new thing by definition as well. However, the devil has tricked us to remain focus upon our sensory and spirit. Therefore we remain divided over what we can see and hear which are all boundaries of our sin corrupted and limited carnality.

    The gentile people are divided by various things such as culture, race, skin color, geography, and other things that should not divide the people of God from one another. The gentile world thinks it is proper to be divided along these various definitions of themselves such as who is rich, black, more gifted, asian, or anything else that shows partially and discrimination. However, it cannot be so for the people of God. However, an honest view at the religion called christianity yields the same common picture that is seen in the gentile world. The greater number of the people of God are still segregated along the gentile defintions of themselves and comfortably so. It is said that the most segregated hour is on Sunday during church services. Its this not carnal as the apostle Paul said.

    Now one can enjoy the fulfillness of the kingdom now, if they still abide and live in the old things. If we continue to call ourselves gentiles, then we continue to act and live as gentiles, because the definition of the gentile has not changed. A gentile without the kingdom is still without a true relationship God. What does this say about a person who stills calls and defines himself as gentile in the kingdom. As a man thinks, so is he.

    As long as we see ourself as what we are in the flesh, then we will remain divided and dwelling in carnality; moreover, bound by old things such racism, ideology, and biases eventhough we are members of a Kingdom that calls us all brotheren with all things in common with one another.

    Why do these old things not die?
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  2. #2
    Hi Manichunter. Yes, it seems the "old man", the "old humanity" dies hard.

    While you say we should not consider ourselves "gentiles", or "of the nations", for then we are divided, and maybe you have a point.

    We, as members of the body of Christ, should reckon ourselves as "saints" or "set apart ones", as Christ adresses us.

    In fact, more ministers should preach from Paul's letters, for then they wrould declare "those in Christ are New Creations."

    Now, in Christ, we read in Ephesians 2:14, concerning us (called the "uncircumcised") and the believing Jew (called the "circumcised"), that Christ "is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.."

    Oh, if only the power of God through Christ, and all that is accomplishing, would be preached!

  3. #3
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    This side of glory, I will stick with
    Simul Iustus et Peccator
    (Simultaneous Just and Sinful)
    To one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. Rom 4:4

    In our selves we are but beggars but on account of faith in Christ, He has declared us righteous and one day we will enjoy it in it's fullness.
    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    Why do these old things not die?
    Because we keep digging them up?

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    Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.(Mt 26:41)
    As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniHansen View Post
    Because we keep digging them up?
    true indeed
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  7. #7
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    Two Natures

    .
    †.1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    When John penned that verse nobody really know too much about science and genetics so the word "seed" had to suffice for quite a bit of ground. What he's saying there is pretty simple really; he's saying that a bat baby takes after its bat daddy because it was born with the nature of a bat; just as raccoon babies take after their raccoon daddies because they were born with the nature of a raccoon. And human babies take after their human daddies because they were born with the nature of a human being.

    In that sense, born-again Christians take after God because they were born with the nature of a divine being.

    †.John 1:12-13 . .as many as received him, to them gave he authority to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    †.John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is Spirit.

    Can God sin? No, God cannot sin (1John 1:5, Jas 1:13). Therefore a being born of God cannot sin either because it takes after its father.

    Does this mean that born-again Christians are sinless? No, it doesn't mean that at all. The very same John who penned 1John 5:9 also penned the below:

    †.1John 1:8 . .If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    The pronouns "we" and "ourselves" and "us" indicate that John included himself in that verse.

    1John 1:8 and 1John 3:9 befuddled me in my early years as a developing believer until a pastor in Vista California clued me into the New Testament fact that born-again Christians are somewhat bi-polar and actually possessed by two different natures at the same time. One nature is Adam's human nature, and the other is God's divine nature.

    God's nature of course never sins; nor does it have a propensity to sin, nor can it be tempted to sin. But Adam's nature loves sin, it thrives on sin, it longs for sin— sin is its life, and it sins all the time (Rom 7:14-21) ergo: if we say we have no sin we make God a liar and His truth is not in us (1John 1:10).

    Fortunately, when born-again Christian die and leave this earth, they are guaranteed to shed their sinning Adamic nature like a dead skin and go into eternity ruled only by God's divine nature, and never again will they be bi-polar.

    †.Col 2:11-12 . .In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with him through faith in the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.

    C.L.I.F.F.

  8. #8
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    I thought a gentile was someone who's not jewish.

    Should I be jewish since I've accepted Christ? Will that require a circumcision?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    I thought a gentile was someone who's not jewish.

    Should I be jewish since I've accepted Christ? Will that require a circumcision?

    In both Hebrew, the word transliterated as Goyim translates into English a gentiles/heathens/nations. Does no longer being a heathen make you Jewish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    I thought a gentile was someone who's not jewish.

    Should I be jewish since I've accepted Christ? Will that require a circumcision?
    Nah, unless you can trace your family roots to the tribe of Judah. Only a person from the tribe of Judah is a Jew, which the name first given to them by the Babylonians. The entire collective of the tribes would be called Israel.

    Has your heart been circumcised. If so, then that will be enough to receive the incorruptible sin and be a witness to your reception to the covenant. Just keep the foreskin off everytime it piles back on.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  11. #11
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    I never considered obeying God as being Jewish.

    hmmmm...did Paul teach that???

    back to the OP, the parallel to physical circumcision is akin to dragging the removed dead flesh with you. It is to be thrown away.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    I thought a gentile was someone who's not jewish.

    Should I be jewish since I've accepted Christ? Will that require a circumcision?
    But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Rom 2:29)

    Don't worry I am not into replacement theology (maybe ingrafted theology) but in a certain sense even us Goyim are included.
    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

  13. #13
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    IMO, death means separation. The old man is dead in that he has been separated from us. However, we often choose to resurrect him by submitting our body to sinful desires.

    Interesting OP. I look forward to dropping in on this thread and learning something.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    Why do these old things not die?
    They don't die because our revelation of God's love is so shallow. Very few of us know what it means to truly die to self therefore we do not know how to live. We keep coming to God demanding to be served instead of seeking how we may serve. We think that God is winking at our division but little do we know he is going to judge it. I am sick of racial division. I am sick of economic division but I am mostly sick of christian division. What will Jesus say to the "christian" who looks down on his brother because of his skin color or economic standing? I wonder what will he say to those men who have built and named a church as a subtle ploy to build their own kingdom in his name? Do we think he will say "well done my good and faithful servant"?

    Blessings

    and Popcorn

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepherdsword View Post
    They don't die because our revelation of God's love is so shallow. Very few of us know what it means to truly die to self therefore we do not know how to live. We keep coming to God demanding to be served instead of seeking how we may serve. We think that God is winking at our division but little do we know he is going to judge it. I am sick of racial division. I am sick of economic division but I am mostly sick of christian division. What will Jesus say to the "christian" who looks down on his brother because of his skin color or economic standing? I wonder what will he say to those men who have built and named a church as a subtle ploy to build their own kingdom in his name? Do we think he will say "well done my good and faithful servant"?
    A thought I got from your post is that God will not be so happy about the sins of omission as well. That being the sin of not actually doing something but failing to do something when you should have. God frowns on us when we have an opportunity to do something but just sit ideal.

    We sometimes say when we are asked a question, "I did not not lie, but I remained silent." And then God will say he will still hold us accountable because we should have done something, like tell the truth. We being comfortable in our flesh and immaturity is not a good thing.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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