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Thread: Aaron vs Melchizedek

  1. #1
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    Aaron vs Melchizedek

    .
    Melchizedek was a priest of the Bible's God who lived in Abraham's day prior to the birth of Levi, Moses, and Aaron; and subsequently prior to the Aaronic priesthood (Gen 14:17-20). Aaron's priesthood-- along with its attendant retinue of under-priests --is THE priesthood for people whose religion consists of the commandments.

    In contrast, Melchizedek's priesthood had no connection to the commandments whatsoever; therefore, his constituents (which included Abraham) were not required to obey the commandments because they didn't become law till a few hundred years later (Gal 3:17). So then it was, and still is, impossible for a Melchizedekian priest's constituents to break the commandments.

    .Rom 4:15 . .where no commandments exist; there is no transgression.

    So then, what does this mean in practical terms?

    The Bible's Jesus is clearly stated to be a priest like Melchizedek.

    .Heb 5:4-6 . .So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to him, "Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee" and also "Thou art a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

    ergo: People trying to earn salvation points via the commandments are mixed up with the wrong priesthood because Melchizedek's order doesn't mediate for people whose religion consists of the commandments. Those people are inadvertently relying upon the now-obsolete Aaronic order rather than Melchizedek's; viz: Jesus is of no use to them whatsoever; and they are in grave danger of the wrath of God.

    .Gal 3:10 . .For as many as are of the works of the commandments are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continually abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." (Deut 27:26)

    .Heb 7:11 . .Now if perfection was through the Aaronic priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the commandments), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

    The answer to that question is quite simple. No flesh will be adjudged innocent in God's court by keeping the commandments simply because no flesh can obey them consistently (Rom 3:19-20). Therefore, Melchizedek's priesthood is mankind's only hope of escape from retribution.

    .Heb 5:8-10 . .He became, to all those who heed him, the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

    .Heb 6:19-20 . .This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

    Religions that require their adherents to comply with the commandments in order to be worthy to escape eternal suffering, rather than depending entirely upon Jesus' priesthood; are religions that doom their members to a status that the Bible calls: fallen from grace and alienated from Christ.

    .Gal 5:3-5 . .For if you are trying to make yourselves righteous with God by keeping the commandments, then you have been severed from Christ! You have fallen from grace.

    .Gal 2:21 . .I am not one of those who treats the kindness of God as meaningless. For if we could be spared by keeping the commandments, then there was no need for Christ to die.

    .Gal 3:21-22 . .If the commandments could have given us new life, then we could have been made right with God by obeying them. But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to rely upon Jesus Christ.

    .Rom 6:23 . .For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life in Messiah Jesus

    C.L.I.F.F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webers_home View Post
    .
    Melchizedek was a priest of the Bible's God who lived in Abraham's day prior to the birth of Levi, Moses, and Aaron; and subsequently prior to the Aaronic priesthood (Gen 14:17-20). Aaron's priesthood-- along with its attendant retinue of under-priests --is THE priesthood for people whose religion consists of the commandments.

    In contrast, Melchizedek's priesthood had no connection to the commandments whatsoever; therefore, his constituents (which included Abraham) were not required to obey the commandments because they didn't become law till a few hundred years later (Gal 3:17). So then it was, and still is, impossible for a Melchizedekian priest's constituents to break the commandments.

    .Rom 4:15 . .where no commandments exist; there is no transgression.

    So then, what does this mean in practical terms?

    The Bible's Jesus is clearly stated to be a priest like Melchizedek.

    .Heb 5:4-6 . .So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to him, "Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee" and also "Thou art a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

    ergo: People trying to earn salvation points via the commandments are mixed up with the wrong priesthood because Melchizedek's order doesn't mediate for people whose religion consists of the commandments. Those people are inadvertently relying upon the now-obsolete Aaronic order rather than Melchizedek's; viz: Jesus is of no use to them whatsoever; and they are in grave danger of the wrath of God.

    .Gal 3:10 . .For as many as are of the works of the commandments are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continually abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." (Deut 27:26)

    .Heb 7:11 . .Now if perfection was through the Aaronic priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the commandments), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?

    The answer to that question is quite simple. No flesh will be adjudged innocent in God's court by keeping the commandments simply because no flesh can obey them consistently (Rom 3:19-20). Therefore, Melchizedek's priesthood is mankind's only hope of escape from retribution.

    .Heb 5:8-10 . .He became, to all those who heed him, the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

    .Heb 6:19-20 . .This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

    Religions that require their adherents to comply with the commandments in order to be worthy to escape eternal suffering, rather than depending entirely upon Jesus' priesthood; are religions that doom their members to a status that the Bible calls: fallen from grace and alienated from Christ.

    .Gal 5:3-5 . .For if you are trying to make yourselves righteous with God by keeping the commandments, then you have been severed from Christ! You have fallen from grace.

    .Gal 2:21 . .I am not one of those who treats the kindness of God as meaningless. For if we could be spared by keeping the commandments, then there was no need for Christ to die.

    .Gal 3:21-22 . .If the commandments could have given us new life, then we could have been made right with God by obeying them. But the Scriptures have declared that we are all prisoners of sin, so the only way to receive God's promise is to rely upon Jesus Christ.

    .Rom 6:23 . .For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life in Messiah Jesus

    C.L.I.F.F.
    So what governs a believers behavior to ensure that they are showing proper love towards God with all their heart, mind, and soul, as well loving their neighbor as themselves. Does the individual believer get to define love by the choice of their own actions? Or does God define the manner and method of how we love?
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    So what governs a believers behavior to ensure that they are showing proper love towards God with all their heart, mind, and soul, as well loving their neighbor as themselves. Does the individual believer get to define love by the choice of their own actions? Or does God define the manner and method of how we love?
    And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
    (Eze 11:19-20)

    Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    (2Co 3:6-9)

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    (Heb 8:9-10)

    Sounds like we go from writing on stones to writing on living tablets of flesh. From the letter to the Spirit.
    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
    (Eze 11:19-20)

    Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    (2Co 3:6-9)

    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    (Heb 8:9-10)

    Sounds like we go from writing on stones to writing on living tablets of flesh. From the letter to the Spirit.
    '

    How we are governed by these means was my question? What do we follow to determine our actions?
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    How we are governed by these means was my question? What do we follow to determine our actions?
    With freedom of choice we decide to follow the internal guidance of the Holy Spirit(the Counselor), whom can always be trusted, always has a direct answer in every situation, and can never be twisted into a "man made unloving ruling" as a few external written laws can be.

    The written law cannot encompass the unwritten law. The Word who is alive and someone you can know personally.

    Peace,
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstib View Post
    With freedom of choice we decide to follow the internal guidance of the Holy Spirit(the Counselor), whom can always be trusted, always has a direct answer in every situation, and can never be twisted into a "man made unloving ruling" as a few external written laws can be.

    The written law cannot encompass the unwritten law. The Word who is alive and someone you can know personally.

    Peace,
    Joe

    So is it abritrary and suggestive to what a person's inner longings or sense of consciense says to him.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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    What do you mean by arbitrary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    So is it abritrary and suggestive to what a person's inner longings or sense of consciense says to him.
    Yes. But I don't think Mr. Holy Spirit is our inner longings or our conscience.

    I would say the advice of the Holy Spirit is always constant and in perfect harmony with God's desire in our life.

    An inner longing more often than not is of the flesh and at war with the spirit.

    The advice of Mr. Holy Spirit will always agree with the full revelation of scripture. (something we can only have in part now) It will always be LOVE.

    Mr. Holy Spirit is God, will never disagree with Himself, will never sow discord,......

    Now of course there will be trouble when one mixes up their thoughts with God's, and a lot of strange things come about. Nothing new there.

    Peace,
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhayes View Post
    What do you mean by arbitrary?
    I mean several things, like multiple, selective, random, open ended, and etc.

    No set of definite rules, but finite in possibilities.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstib View Post
    Yes. But I don't think Mr. Holy Spirit is our inner longings or our conscience.

    I would say the advice of the Holy Spirit is always constant and in perfect harmony with God's desire in our life.

    An inner longing more often than not is of the flesh and at war with the spirit.

    The advice of Mr. Holy Spirit will always agree with the full revelation of scripture. (something we can only have in part now) It will always be LOVE.

    Mr. Holy Spirit is God, will never disagree with Himself, will never sow discord,......

    Now of course there will be trouble when one mixes up their thoughts with God's, and a lot of strange things come about. Nothing new there.

    Peace,
    Joe
    How do we distinquish the voices from one another (meaning the voice of the Holy Spirit and our own inward voices).

    What allows us to recognize the Holy Spirit.

    I think I know my own voice, I have a very vivid imagination.
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    No set of definite rules, but finite in possibilities.
    A set of defined rules can only point to some sin, it cannot point to all sin.

    It can point to the root of all sin, but not all things that can be sinful.


    Can you follow a small set of difined rules yet never worship God in your heart? I say yes.

    Can you follow God in your heart and break a rule He had for you that was left undefined? Not if you are following Him.

    Does freedom of thought lead to infinte possibilities for conversation/communion? Infinte is a big word but I would go with uncountable at least.

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    Response to #2 by manichunter

    .
    RE: So what governs a believers behavior to ensure that they are showing proper love towards God

    Before I undertake to answer your question I first need to emphasize that my original post is not a call to rebellion against the commandments.

    .Ps 19:7-8 . .The law of Yhvh is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of Yhvh is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of Yhvh are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of Yhvh is pure, enlightening the eyes.

    .Ps 19:10-11 . .More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

    .Mtt 5:19 . .Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    .Rom 3:31 . .Do we, then, nullify the commandments by this faith? God forbid! Rather, we uphold the Law.

    .Rom 7:7 . .What shall we say then? Are the commandments sin? God forbid!

    .Rom 7:12-13 . .So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

    My original post does not call people to rebell against the commandments, but rather, to urge them to avoid depending on obedience to the commandments as a means of escaping the wrath of God and obtaining eternal life. That said, here's an answer to your question.

    A believer's love for God is expressed in their obedience to both God and His son.

    .John 14:15 . .If you love me, keep my commandments.

    .John 14:21 . .He who has my commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves me.

    .John 15:10 . .If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.

    .1John 5:3 . .For this is the love of God: that we keep His commandments.

    FAQ: Cliff, I don't feel any love for either God or His son. Will I go to Hell?

    There's a way out non-lovers.

    .1John 4:10 . .Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    Webster's defines propitiation as: that which appeases, reconciles, pacifies, and/or conciliates; viz: effects peace between opposing parties.

    .Rom 5:6-11 . .For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a worthy man someone would dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been acquitted by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    .John 3:16-17 . .For God so cared for the world that He donated His only son, so that everyone who relies upon him will not perish but have eternal life. God did not send His son into the world to condemn it, but to rescue it.

    .Eph 2:8-9 . .God spared you by His benevolence when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it's a gratuity from God. Salvation is not compensation for the good things we have done; so none of us can boast about it.

    .Titus 3:4-8 . .But when the kindness of God, our savior, and His love for mankind appeared, He spared us, not on the basis of righteous deeds which we have done, but according to His mercy: by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our savior, that being made righteous via His benevolence, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    C.L.I.F.F.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by webers_home View Post
    .
    RE: So what governs a believers behavior to ensure that they are showing proper love towards God

    Before I undertake to answer your question I first need to emphasize that my original post is not a call to rebellion against the commandments.

    .Ps 19:7-8 . .The law of Yhvh is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of Yhvh is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of Yhvh are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of Yhvh is pure, enlightening the eyes.

    .Ps 19:10-11 . .More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

    .Mtt 5:19 . .Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    .Rom 3:31 . .Do we, then, nullify the commandments by this faith? God forbid! Rather, we uphold the Law.

    .Rom 7:7 . .What shall we say then? Are the commandments sin? God forbid!

    .Rom 7:12-13 . .So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

    My original post does not call people to rebell against the commandments, but rather, to urge them to avoid depending on obedience to the commandments as a means of escaping the wrath of God and obtaining eternal life. That said, here's an answer to your question.

    A believer's love for God is expressed in their obedience to both God and His son.

    .John 14:15 . .If you love me, keep my commandments.

    .John 14:21 . .He who has my commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves me.

    .John 15:10 . .If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.

    .1John 5:3 . .For this is the love of God: that we keep His commandments.

    FAQ: Cliff, I don't feel any love for either God or His son. Will I go to Hell?

    There's a way out non-lovers.

    .1John 4:10 . .Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    Webster's defines propitiation as: that which appeases, reconciles, pacifies, and/or conciliates; viz: effects peace between opposing parties.

    .Rom 5:6-11 . .For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a worthy man someone would dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been acquitted by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    .John 3:16-17 . .For God so cared for the world that He donated His only son, so that everyone who relies upon him will not perish but have eternal life. God did not send His son into the world to condemn it, but to rescue it.

    .Eph 2:8-9 . .God spared you by His benevolence when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it's a gratuity from God. Salvation is not compensation for the good things we have done; so none of us can boast about it.

    .Titus 3:4-8 . .But when the kindness of God, our savior, and His love for mankind appeared, He spared us, not on the basis of righteous deeds which we have done, but according to His mercy: by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our savior, that being made righteous via His benevolence, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    C.L.I.F.F.
    Thanks for the clarification, kind sir
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by manichunter View Post
    How do we distinquish the voices from one another (meaning the voice of the Holy Spirit and our own inward voices).

    What allows us to recognize the Holy Spirit.

    I think I know my own voice, I have a very vivid imagination.
    If I had an answer for this one we could wrap up in a box it would answer allot of peoples questions.

    I don't know a great way to put it, discernment is a gift from God and one to be prayed earnestly for.

    For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me. For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.(Php 1:7-11 NASB)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstib View Post
    A set of defined rules can only point to some sin, it cannot point to all sin.

    It can point to the root of all sin, but not all things that can be sinful.


    Can you follow a small set of difined rules yet never worship God in your heart? I say yes.

    Can you follow God in your heart and break a rule He had for you that was left undefined? Not if you are following Him.

    Does freedom of thought lead to infinte possibilities for conversation/communion? Infinte is a big word but I would go with uncountable at least.

    So does freedom of thoughts lead to freedom of actions for believers?
    Edify the brethren, love the brethren, and forgive the brethren until I have nothing left.

    www.woc-church.org

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