Christ's Sacrifice.

[Athanasius]

I just noticed it did pretty much what happens on these boards whenever a difficult question is raised.

The issues are ignored.

I bought up the point that God demanded human sacrifice.

Do you honestly think thats a morally good thing?

The issue isn't ignored, it's that the question that's corrected. You may point to Jephthah and say, "God demanded human sacrifice!" or you may point to 'this many' different situations and exclaim, "God demanded human sacrifice!" and the point is this: He didn't. Just as if we were to examine the circumstances and situation surrounding Jephthah we would see much of the same things regarding those other circumstances.

You could present the most articulate, succinct and eloquently written objection to God wholly predicated upon God demanding human sacrifice and it indeed may be a beautiful read. However, the fact that it's predicated upon something that just isn't so means that this article, even if it were volumes in length, could be defeated with the words, 'God never demanded human sacrifice'.

You're ignoring the answer, it's plain as day. It's been repeated. Yet here you are...

And with regard to "debate" on these boards...thats actually impossible.

The nature of these boards actively prohibits free exchange of information.

It swiftly becomes 1 non believer vs All the Christians on the board.

The inability to 'formally debate' does not prohibit the 'free exchange of information,' Quite the contrary. You came to a Christian board, did you really expect anything but '1 non believer vs all the Christians'? (especially after reading the rules. You did read them, right?) I login to atheist forums and it's '1 believer vs all the non-Christians'? I don't complain, it's an interesting intellectual exercise.

And isn't the aim of debate to lead to discovery? I have come to these boards with honest questions and recieved mostly evasive answers, or non answers, or no answers at all or just threats.

A lot of the time people come here with the same regurgitated material ad nauseum and every time they expect it to put us through a loop where we'll actually have to use our brains, think, and therefore drop our faith - it simply isn't happening. We aren't closed minded, ignorant, 'left our brains at the door' believers who never once thought about questioning or thinking about our faith.

I'll give you that your questions are honest, as are our answers which have not been evasive, 'non-answers' or threats.

[maybrick]

The inability to 'formally debate' does not prohibit the 'free exchange of information,' Quite the contrary. You came to a Christian board, did you really expect anything but '1 non believer vs all the Christians'? (especially after reading the rules. You did read them, right?) I login to atheist forums and it's '1 believer vs all the non-Christians'? I don't complain, it's an interesting intellectual exercise.

I did read the rules, and i confess that i only skim read. I was quite taken aback at the limited second class postion that non-christians are given.

I am not complaining as such, these are "your" boards and you can manage them as you wish.

I am merely commenting that as someone who came here to honestly find out more about christians, the simple fact that such rules are in place does not help your position. It makes it seem like you things to hide.

And i would very like you to show me even one "atheist" or science based message board wherein christians have limited posting options.

And i agree...it is quite an interesting experiance, the problem is that i see so many logical fallacies and misinformation...that goes uncorrected.

A lot of the time people come here with the same regurgitated material ad nauseum and every time they expect it to put us through a loop where we'll actually have to use our brains, think, and therefore drop our faith - it simply isn't happening. We aren't closed minded, ignorant, 'left our brains at the door' believers who never once thought about questioning or thinking about our faith.

I'll give you that your questions are honest, as are our answers which have not been evasive, 'non-answers' or threats.

And personally i didn't come here to "convert", I think you will find that I have kept away from the more obvious issues with the Bible (literal global flood vs local flood or the historicity of Jesus). I am interested in the character/nature of God.

I have asked many honest questions (and expect many more ) and in some cases no answers were forthcoming.



But i have also had many questons answered, so i am indeed greatful for the insight that has been given.

[maybrick]

Now, this site has been created with the goal in mind to provide Christians, who have to deal with a real spiritual enemy every day, with a refuge and a place to come to so they can be assisted and encouraged and comforted. The admins have been kind enough to also include a section for unbelievers to come and get questions answered and aided in their own search for truth, just as a regular church would. I'm not exactly understanding why you would view that as arrogance and prejudice; what it is, is structured around reality and need. So please don't bring your personal prejudices into the mix because that is completely unfounded. And please do understand that if any human being on this planet offers you assistance in a setting that they are providing out of their own pocket and on grounds of their own labor and energy, then it is going to happen on that person's terms, and not your own. In turn, if I come to your home and ask something of you, then feel free to let me know your rules and I will abide by them.

What prejudices have i bought here?

But i honestly mean no offense, my attitude is more of puzzlement than anything else.

It is abundantly obvious that these boards are a little "bubble" away from the real world. And thats fine.

What is odd to me is that there are several posters who make the exact posts that i would (like) to make...indeed they seem far more literate than myself in areas of science. So its not a question of content that you are censoring, its merely my lack of belief.


As i said in the above post, these are indeed "your" boards. And of course, you can run them as you wish. I shall not mention the issue again.

[maybrick]

Now, having said that, I would encourage my brothers and sisters here that if you feel yourself running out of grace and think your dialogue with our young friend here has reached its limits, then kindly step away from it and let others help it along.

Its been a while since anyone has called me young.

Thanks

[apothanein kerdos]

And i agree...it is quite an interesting experiance, the problem is that i see so many logical fallacies and misinformation...that goes uncorrected.

Such as?

This is one of the other problems that is consistently made on this boards by non-believers; we [Christians] are called illogical or holding to misinformation, but then no one goes on to actually show how what we believe is illogical.

I even asked you to give me the verse you're talking about in Numbers concerning human sacrifice. I am forced to conclude that either you heard this from second hand information, read it off a website, or just don't want to share.

[forum lurker]

Referring to the original post, Christ could indeed have chosen some other method for his punishment. But it wouldn't make any difference.

God chose death for the punishment of sin. Since God is eternal, we are in his image also eternal. Because everyone sins, there would be nothing left in His creation because of that rule. What would be the point of creation, if it all was going to get wiped out permanently?

God could have chosen some other punishment, like lobotomy or just slap around a little. But still, we couldn't be in His presence as we would still carry our sins.

So Jesus' death wasn't all about His death, it's also about our death. If you say, that Jesus' death wasn't a real death, you are leaving out our purpose in his death. Thanks to Him, we can live after death just like He did. In Christianity, the son and father are in essence the same, so in your scenario there wouldn't be much left if Jesus had died completely from existence.

Jesus made His rules, and you have a right not to like those rules. That doesn't mean they are bad. I think they are fair, and consistent, so I'll disagree with your OP.

[Athanasius]

I did read the rules, and i confess that i only skim read. I was quite taken aback at the limited second class postion that non-christians are given.

I am not complaining as such, these are "your" boards and you can manage them as you wish.

I am merely commenting that as someone who came here to honestly find out more about christians, the simple fact that such rules are in place does not help your position. It makes it seem like you things to hide.

And i would very like you to show me even one "atheist" or science based message board wherein christians have limited posting options.

And i agree...it is quite an interesting experiance, the problem is that i see so many logical fallacies and misinformation...that goes uncorrected.

There are people who come here to honestly and sincerely argue and there are people who come here to honestly and sincerely ask questions. The former group doesn't last very long. The latter group tend to stick around and don't have an issue with the way the board is set up.

I don't believe anyone here has ever pointed to an atheistic, philosophic, scientific or non-religious forum and said, 'see, they're that way too!' That would be a silly form of justification. What I meant by my previous comment is that any comment I make on a non-Christian board is immediately replied to by a large number of non-Christians (as I'm in the minority) simply because of the nature of the forum. We don't make any apologies that we have the rules and guidelines that we have. What is it exactly you believe we're trying to hide? You have full access to the forum you're simply restricted to posting in a limited number of them. That in no way allows us to hide anything.

I recently watched The Haunting of Molly Hartley and in the movie there is a scene in a classroom where scripture was to be studied. The teacher hands out Bibles to the entire class and the stereotypical horror movie 'Christian student' complains - she doesn't like questioning her faith, doesn't believe it necessary and absolutely does not want scripture to be treated like just another text book. A lot of people assume Christians are actually like this (I'm aware some actually are) though it's quite the opposite. As far as I'm aware there have been no logical fallacies said that have gone uncorrected. There's also been no misinformation given that's been uncorrected. If you're speaking of anything specific then please bring it to our attention, just don't sit there and attempt to justify yourself with it when the justification might itself be extremely unwarranted.

[maybrick]

I think this thread is going quite far from my original intentions, and i apologise if that was my fault.

I asked the original question and it was answered very well, the links by apothanein kerdos were very informative.

I never intended this to be debate about forum policies.

As to the errors/issues i have seen, the vast majority are caught...but the odd one creeps through.

It reminds me of that joke "there is someone wrong on the internet!".

I am happy to let this thread fade away, assuming thats fine with everyone else.

And another genuine thanks for peoples contributions.

[watchinginawe]

It is abundantly obvious that these boards are a little "bubble" away from the real world. And thats fine.

Hello maybrick. Thanks for the kind words.

I know this thread is winding down but I wanted to make mention of the above comment. To a Christian forum, its volunteers, and its members, you have paid a great complement. For the Christian, that bubble is bigger than an internet forum though. We are instructed to be like foreigners here on Earth, so it is a testimony of sorts when someone recognizes us in that way.

I am glad you came here with your questions.

God Bless!

[mcgyver]

I think this thread is going quite far from my original intentions, and i apologise if that was my fault.

I asked the original question and it was answered very well, the links by apothanein kerdos were very informative.

I never intended this to be debate about forum policies.

As to the errors/issues i have seen, the vast majority are caught...but the odd one creeps through.

It reminds me of that joke "there is someone wrong on the internet!".

I am happy to let this thread fade away, assuming thats fine with everyone else.

And another genuine thanks for peoples contributions.

Maybrick, if you want this thread closed, just ask and one of the Mods will go ahead and close it for you.