Senior Member
The Greek word en used in Acts 1:8 can be translated "in", "by" or "with". Not "on". It is a pointless argument anyway. The point is our Power comes from the Spirit. And your inference that the Spirit is not guiding me when I read my Bible is out of line.Originally Posted by Bladers
In Him,
Bob Allen
Regular Contributor
***
If you mean an 'annointing', being a meeting with the Holy Spirit like when Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit as He was baptized by John, then I think that is of God's ultimate timing and authority. On the other hand, in Luke a passage speaks about being bold and knocking and asking and being persistent.
Luke 11:11-13
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
There is no better YOU than the YOU that God wants YOU to be.
1 Peter 1:3-5
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Grand Master
Ofcourse our power comes from the Spirit, but yet we need to divide the word of God rightly.
Here are some of the scriptures telling us what happens when the Holy Spirit comes upon a person.
Judges 14:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done."
Judges 14:19
"And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house."
Judges 15:14
"And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands."
1 Samuel 10:6
"And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man."
Isaiah 61:1
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"
Jesus told the disciples that the Holy Spirit is with them and shall be in them.
The in you came when Jesus breathed in them and said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost".
Then Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."
There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.
He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.
We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.
Grand Master
All of those versus are Old Testament history and before Christ. The coming of the Holy Spirit for the Disciples was in essence a one time event, an event that marked a drastic change in the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Instead of coming upon just a few of Israel as God so moved, now we as Christians have access to the Holy Spirit because of our faith.
I am still waiting on a verse that says you have to pray for it...
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Grand Master
I think you missed the whole message of the post: 'The power of the Holy Spirit never comes in you as some claims, its only on you.'
Jesus said, "When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you will receive Power."
There are three different experience, with you, in you, and upon you.
He is with you before salvation to convict you.
He is in you at salvation to save you.
He is upon you later on to empower you for ministry.
To receive anything from God you have to pray for it.I am still waiting on a verse that says you have to pray for it...
Jesus said "How much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
The discisples couldn't heal a specific man nor was able to cast out the devil in him, Jesus told them : "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." (Matthew 17:21)
When Jesus was being baptized, Did you know what he was doing? "...It came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened" (Luke 3:21)
After Jesus gave the promise that the disciples will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes on not in them. What were they doing? "These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication..." (Acts 1:14)
And again when that power increased to great power, what were they doing? "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." (Acts 4:31)
The apostles made one bold statement which is the reason for their ministry.
Acts 6:4 - "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word."
If you want to operate in the Power of the Holy Spirit that the apostles operated in, your life better be a life of prayer. Remember Cornelius? you better be a Cornelius. God filled him with his Gospel and the Holy Spirit because he was hungry and was a man of prayer. If he did not pray for it, he would have never been filled.
"Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves." (Mark 11:17)
We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.
Acts 10:44-46 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
When did they pray?
Acts 9:17-19 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
When did Paul pray?
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Hi Bladers!
I think it may be a good idea if you drop the arrogant attitude, you display in your posts.
Jesus said "I never knew you"
Jesus means what He says, that He NEVER knew them. So how can you say that He once knew them?
Are you going to tell Jesus, that He got it wrong as well?
Grand Master
Here: Acts 10:2 - "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway."
Look closely, "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him... that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
Acts 9:17-19 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
When did Paul pray?
Ananias Laid hands and prayed over Paul..
But it also looks like you are trying to evade the fact you have to pray to receive anything from God, even salvation.
We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.
Grand Master
Curious that you insist it is upon, when in John the Word used is "receive" as in Accept. Note that this was different then how the Holy Spirit was used before Pentecost.
Lk 1:67 (NKJV)
Zacharias Prophesies of John’s Ministry
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
Luke 1:67 (NKJV)
Lk 2:25 (NKJV)
25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
Luke 2:25 (NKJV)
Lk 2:26 (NKJV)
26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
Luke 2:26 (NKJV)
(all of the above happened before pentecost)
Jn 7:37-39 (NKJV)
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 7:37-39 (NKJV)
The Living Water is the Holy Spirit which comes and resides within us.
Jn 14:26 (NKJV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 14:26 (NKJV)
this he speaks foreshadowing what happened at Pentecost
Jn 20:21-25 (NKJV)
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
John 20:21-25 (NKJV)
But according to the other gospels and acts they were not baptized with the Spirit until Pentecost see:
Lk 24:49 (NKJV)
Mark 16:19; Acts 1:9
49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
Luke 24:49 (NKJV)
I am inclined to believe that Jesus was telling them to receive the Holy Spirit, but this was not when it came, because jesus said:
Jn 14:16-21 (NKJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
John 14:16-21 (NKJV)
Since jesus had not yet gone to his father, the Comforter could not yet have come. He came 40 days after the ascencion on Pentecost as we know.
Ac 1:5 (NKJV)
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:5 (NKJV)
Ac 1:8 (NKJV)
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Acts 1:8 (NKJV)
Ac 1:16 (NKJV)
16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus;
Acts 1:16 (NKJV)
Ac 2:4 (NKJV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4 (NKJV)
So in conclusion the Holy Spirit comes within you at the moment of Salvation now as seen in Acts. It was only the apostles who had to pray and wait 40 days the rest seem to have received it when they were baptized by the Apostles (and in some occasions when they laid hands on them.)
Ever here of "prooftexting"?
Acts 3:3-7 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!" So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong.
When did he pray?
You are making assumptions that these people prayed. You have yet to provide a single scripture that actually states that these people prayed for the Holy Spirit or anything else for that matter.
Please provide a single scripture anywhere in the Bible that directly says that you must pray for salvation.But it also looks like you are trying to evade the fact you have to pray to receive anything from God, even salvation.
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Grand Master
Sorry about the attitude, But that verse are one of the mysteries of God.
We already know that devil can not cast out devil.
We also know we can only cast out devil by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
This tells us that the person had a relationship with God to get the Power before later on walked away.
The mystery is Jesus telling them i never knew you.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We are his body, We are his representative, We are the extension of God to the earth. Every action should be a extension of God's love.
It is generally not a good practice to declare a scripture that is in conflict with your personal theology "one of the mysteries of God." When you find a scripture that counters your beliefs, you either need to come up with a viable explaination of the scripture OR change your beliefs.
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
Grand Master
I agree with Urban. Christ is clearly saying he never knew them. Never, meaning that they were never him. I don't know how more absolute the Lord could have been on what he meant. Now one thing to perhaps take into mind is that people will say they did X or Y (fill in the blank, cast out demons, built great buildings, whatever) they will say they did these things in his name, but Christ knows the truth, and it is not these things which grant someone eternal life, not only this, but there is such a thing as a fraud. People who make a show of doing certain things, when in fact they have done nothing of the sort.
I believe that is who Christ is talking about, people who fool themselves, maybe even try to fool the 'elect' if you will, yet God is not fooled about who they really are.
There's a miracle right there... and I didn't even ask for it!
For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26
If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter
Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter
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