almost beyond belief

[Elijah's Mantle]

A forum for practical Christianity centered on answering the tough questions posed to our faith as well as sharing the gospel of Christ. This forum is for Christians to help Christians.

Ive seemingly ran into one of those often "tough" questions ,and I would like advice as to how ? to effectively deal with a "christian" issue, that some may be very sensitive toward .

Given the nature of what it "means" to all Christians as a (whole) to be "definable" as a "Christian" , meaning that individual(s) have the Christ Like attitude toward all. It is understandable why ? some tough questions are just more sensitive, than others.

ok Here is the statement and question

" IT IS ALMOST BEYOND BELIEF, THAT INDIVIDUAL(S)
SUPPOSEDLY IND WELLED BY THE "HOLY SPIRIT" ,
COULD BE PARTAKERS OF SUCH ACTIVITY."

And the "such activity" is in direct reference to so called "Christian(s) who have all but dedicated themselves to "Attacking" other Christians

Given the subject matter, to most professing Christians , it is easily assessed that it is considered to be by some
"Most TRAGIC" , and so I am seeking advice as to
How should a "Christian" respond effectively ,to this
type of a tough and sensitive "Christian matter"

[moonglow]

Ive seemingly ran into one of those often "tough" questions ,and I would like advice as to how ? to effectively deal with a "christian" issue, that some may be very sensitive toward .

Given the nature of what it "means" to all Christians as a (whole) to be "definable" as a "Christian" , meaning that individual(s) have the Christ Like attitude toward all. It is understandable why ? some tough questions are just more sensitive, than others.

ok Here is the statement and question

" IT IS ALMOST BEYOND BELIEF, THAT INDIVIDUAL(S)
SUPPOSEDLY IND WELLED BY THE "HOLY SPIRIT" ,
COULD BE PARTAKERS OF SUCH ACTIVITY."

And the "such activity" is in direct reference to so called "Christian(s) who have all but dedicated themselves to "Attacking" other Christians

Given the subject matter, to most professing Christians , it is easily assessed that it is considered to be by some
"Most TRAGIC" , and so I am seeking advice as to
How should a "Christian" respond effectively ,to this
type of a tough and sensitive "Christian matter"

Well dearheart..I hate to tell you this but this has been something that has been going on since...well since the NT times. There are scriptures where Paul is dealing with such matters in the first churches..and the disciples even argued among themselves. I see it all the time...to varying degrees.

The bible tells us we can judge other Christians and correct and rebuke them on false teachings or misunderstanding of verses. This should be done gently though but depending on the type of Christian you are dealing with...one that may be immature, they can cross the line and get nasty and personal in their attacks. Many threads have been locked even on here due to people breaking the rules on this and going overboard. Part of the problem too is Christians get passionate about their beliefs and truly view themselves as fighting against some false teaching...defending our God against these (what they see as) wayward Christians.

The best way to handle it is to show them the scriptures on how to correct teachings they feel are out of line...

It makes it even more difficult too when we all know there are tares among the wheat ...not knowing who really is a born again spirit filled Christian and who isn't. But as Jesus said, by their fruits you will know them.

God bless

[Athanasius]

I would say read the words of Jesus, who said 'attacking' within the proper context was wrong?

[Elijah's Mantle]

That is genuine "good advice" , I appreciate

yes I agree we Christians do live in "tough" times , spiritually speaking, and it is a growing concern that we also do live in a "era" of time where there is tremendous information.
And almost anyone , whether they are sincerely a "Holy Spirit filled believer in Christ can use the power of the Internet "Cyberspace" to dedicate their time to attacking other Christians and spreading vicious proliferation of misinformation and disinformation about other Christians . Most tragic is how so-called "Christians" are contributing to this proliferation .

I am thinking and combing scripture , so as to be equipped and more able to effectively give answer to the growing Christian population ,that "seemingly" is being affected by this "Type" of problem .

I was wondering if this in fact was a matter that should be considered "spiritual warfare"

Do you have any "thoughts" on whether this is the true case, or not ?

Do you suppose, such attacks are not just limited to simple assaults on other points of view, but penetrate into the realm of questioning another person's Christianity, misrepresenting the faith of others, and deliberately seeking to destroy the reputation of various public figures or fellow believers ?
Maybe these type of persons have actually formed a new "cult" of sorts.?

As tough a question as it is , I tend to think maybe going in the direction of "spiritual warfare" , may be helpful I am not sure , as you know we Christians have a "roaring Lion" enemy

But on the same token I am perplexed as to
whether or not that is a effective being it is a Christian and Christian

on that I am somewhat stuck

Then again
A detailed look inside satans war room might provide answers
In any war, there is a war room. The war room is the pulse and heartbeat of any military. Located in the war room are the tactical and strategical military planners. They determine their military's plan of attack. If you gain access to an opponent's war manual, you will learn their military hierarchy, obtain troop data, armament capabilities and strike plans.
This vital information clearly gives you the military advantage. Satan's war room is revealed in Psalm 2:1-3. his strategical and tactical wartime planning manual. It includes all of his tactics, schemes, plans of attacks, plots and booby traps against the Church.

[Elijah's Mantle]

Helpful "scriptures " On the subject "

"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor."
Exodus 20:15


"Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness."
Exodus 23:1


"A perverse man stirs up dissension and a gossip separates close friends."
Proverbs 16:28


"An angry man stirs up dissension."
Proverbs 29:22


"A truthful witness gives honest testimony, but a false witness tells lies."
Proverbs 12:17


"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will perish."
Proverbs 19:9


"Like a club or a sword or a sharp arrow is the man who gives false testimony against his neighbor."
Proverbs 25:18


"Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence …"
Psalms 101:5


"He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool."
Proverbs 10:18


"Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice."
Ephesians 4:31


"Remind the people to … slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men."

Titus 3: 1-2
"The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire and is itself set on fire by hell."
James 3:
"Therefore rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy and slander of every kind."
1 Peter 2:1

[grit]

There are 2 main principles at the heart of Jesus’ Gospel which stand as foundational to Christianity: unity and truth. In Presbyterian heritage, we often refer to them as studying the peace and purity of the church; and they were modeled on Christ’s high priestly prayer in John 17.

(v.3)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent… (v.11) I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are... (v.17) Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth… (v.20-23) I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

They are also summed up nicely in Jesus’ declaration of the Greatest Commandment in Luke 10:27:

YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

Further, Jesus said we will be known as his disciples in our having love for one another, in John 13:34-35:

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

These two principles, unity and truth, are difficult for us to manage: On the one hand God is not divided, truth is absolute and without variation or compromise in Christ; on the other hand God is not divided, unity is absolute and without division of hostility or disagreement. We Christians, even with the Holy Spirit’s guidance, struggle to be both pure (true) and at peace (unity) with one another.

When we sometimes think our brother is in error and straying from the truth we go to war to win him back, and when we sometimes think our brother is experiencing hatred we compromise purity to show him love or be at peace with him. Both tendencies are inappropriate extremes for the Christian. We are called to stand unwavering in both truth and love, but we are flawed in understanding and enacting both. One extreme, for example, has been in burning a fellow Christian at the stake, in forcing a deprivation of the flesh with hope of purifying the soul (cf. Matt 3:11; 18:7-9; 1 Cor. 3:12-15; 1 Pet. 1:6-7). The other extreme has been in proudly ignoring proper discipline and godly conduct out of a false sense of lovingly forgiving a brother (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; 9-13), in essence giving love no moral backbone.

Perhaps the key comes in humbly acknowledging our own limitations of perfectly understanding and following Christ’s commands, but at the same time being true in practice to what we find in Hebrews 10:23-25:

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

[Frances]

Is this 'attack' against unscriptural behaviour (eg. homosexuality)? If so the 'attacker' is likely to be giving the Holy Spirit's viewpoint..

Is this 'attack' against Biblical teaching (eg. Creation in 6 days)? If so the attacker needs to learn to trust God and not man's ideas.

Is the 'attack' indiscriminatly against specific Christians regarding whatever they may say or do? If so, Spiritual warfare may be the answer.

In every case, remember they may argue against you and tear your reputation to threads, but they have no power against your prayer . . . . and everyone who says they are a Christian may not be recognised by the Lord as His disciple.

[Elijah's Mantle]

There are 2 main principles at the heart of Jesus’ Gospel which stand as foundational to Christianity: unity and truth. In Presbyterian heritage, we often refer to them as studying the peace and purity of the church; and they were modeled on Christ’s high priestly prayer in John 17.

(v.3)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent… (v.11) I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are... (v.17) Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth… (v.20-23) I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

They are also summed up nicely in Jesus’ declaration of the Greatest Commandment in Luke 10:27:

YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

Further, Jesus said we will be known as his disciples in our having love for one another, in John 13:34-35:

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

These two principles, unity and truth, are difficult for us to manage: On the one hand God is not divided, truth is absolute and without variation or compromise in Christ; on the other hand God is not divided, unity is absolute and without division of hostility or disagreement. We Christians, even with the Holy Spirit’s guidance, struggle to be both pure (true) and at peace (unity) with one another.

When we sometimes think our brother is in error and straying from the truth we go to war to win him back, and when we sometimes think our brother is experiencing hatred we compromise purity to show him love or be at peace with him. Both tendencies are inappropriate extremes for the Christian. We are called to stand unwavering in both truth and love, but we are flawed in understanding and enacting both. One extreme, for example, has been in burning a fellow Christian at the stake, in forcing a deprivation of the flesh with hope of purifying the soul (cf. Matt 3:11; 18:7-9; 1 Cor. 3:12-15; 1 Pet. 1:6-7). The other extreme has been in proudly ignoring proper discipline and godly conduct out of a false sense of lovingly forgiving a brother (cf. 1 Cor. 5:5; 9-13), in essence giving love no moral backbone.

Perhaps the key comes in humbly acknowledging our own limitations of perfectly understanding and following Christ’s commands, but at the same time being true in practice to what we find in Hebrews 10:23-25:

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Thank u tremendously ,these principles ,are good to have and know Grit . Principles are important .

I would hope to God , no one used the burning at the stake ,extreme

I see the difference in what your stating about (balance)

[Elijah's Mantle]

Is this 'attack' against unscriptural behaviour (eg. homosexuality)? If so the 'attacker' is likely to be giving the Holy Spirit's viewpoint..

Is this 'attack' against Biblical teaching (eg. Creation in 6 days)? If so the attacker needs to learn to trust God and not man's ideas.

Is the 'attack' indiscriminatly against specific Christians regarding whatever they may say or do? If so, Spiritual warfare may be the answer.

In every case, remember they may argue against you and tear your reputation to threads, but they have no power against your prayer . . . . and everyone who says they are a Christian may not be recognised by the Lord as His disciple.

Francis , the attackers had none of those reasons ,that you mentioned . They basically just were at random attacking the "scriptures" and offering proliferation and misinformation ,for the purpose of being "against" and not for other Faithful Christians .

It could be they had Racial motives, or are just attempting to cause "disunity" among believers within the body of Christ. At any rate or level , this type of
persecution that has waged all out war against Christian values highly indicates to me that , such attacks are not just limited to simple assaults on other points of view, but penetrate into the realm of questioning another person's Christianity, misrepresenting the faith of others, and deliberately seeking to destroy the reputation of various public figures and fellow believers.

These have all but demonstrated that their real agenda and ministry ,is about the destruction of fellow Christians
their attacks are based on things that have NOTHING to do with doctrinal teachings or whether or not a person is in the church. They base their attacks on, political views,
certain verbiage used to communicate biblical truths, and public friendships/associations they enjoy with certain believers/unbelievers.

The targets of these attackers of other Christians could literally be "Anyone" they select.

thats why it is such a "tough question" they could be connected to various branches of Catholicism .Anyway they are conspiratorial players .

conspiratorial players in some Antichrist scenario, are apostates, fake brethren who lead fake churches, compromise 'rs , New Age sympathizers , the list goes on and on. Unfortunately, the way these people/ministries make their charges stick is by use of half-truths, false information, outright lies, faulty reasoning, unsubstantiated assumptions, quotes taken out of context, and manipulation of facts .

It is discouraging, frustrating, and painful to witness.
So, for the sake of all that is good, right, true, just and biblical don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Test all things, and hold fast to that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21).
Verify information before you simply believe it.
Go to the actual sources of isolated quotes that sound damning (they're often taken out of context).
Contact, if you can, the person being attacked and ask them for confirmation of what you've heard.
And for those of you who, like me, have had unkind/untrue things said about them on the Internet, hang in there. JUDGMENT WILL ONE DAY COME.



one of the worst of the worst, the attacks are repeatedly against God's people and encourages others to do likewise , falsely laying false charges against Gods People

I personally believe that Holy Spirit filled Christians in General , should never condone support be associated with or in participation with so called cult like Pseudo minded Christians that just devote their time and effort toward "destroying" core values of other Christians, for their own unknown motives or reasons revolving around their religion , whether it be Catholic or what may have you .

All other Christians can do about it is refuse to participate donate or in any manner offer monetary support of any group that does do so . If Christians
can use technology for God's Glory , that is awesome and of good report .

As for the ones who use it to divide, persecute , slander, and bring false accusations toward other Christians in senseless attacks , it creates the most Tragic , of problems and Christians of all walks of Faith need to be against condoning suporting or participating in the promotion of such tragic proliferation as such , It destroys the body of Christ and therefore can not be "Christian"

It is difficult for many Christians to "HEAR" the solid warning and the Alarm sounding , that if they do participate in such activities , they in truth are condoning ,Christian persecution and destruction , of Christianity which clearly to me is enough of a reason to state , it is a "enemy" of those in Faith .

people will always beg to differ on some issues , that is a given , however if they are not practicing or using the Christian principles , it is almost beyond belief it could be deemed or known as (Christian)
and therefore should not be supported by Christians .

As were all very "aware" the enemy uses many proliferation and tactics , under guise
it is just unmistakable when you witness some so called Christians using some proliferate tactics in their dealings with other Christians

[Elijah's Mantle]

MOONGLOW Xel,NAGA GRIT,and FRANCIS ,

I am happy to report to you that after my morning prayer this morning the "HOLY SPIRIT" revealed to me the truth about the problems within the current body of Christ of today. I have understanding of why ? I have all but departed from one board and God allowed me to find this board .

what that is going on that got revealed is this

Go to John 17:20 and read it
Jesus very last prayer for us

we the body are suposed to be unified , the reason were not is due to "socially acceptable sins"
these sins cause these things to occur

Gossiping murmuring a critical spirit , a unforgiving heart , spiritual pride and jealousy , putting others down , rebellion against spiritual authority , etcetera

all these do not Glorify God .
and it keeps focus diverted so people are blind to the tactics of the enemy . They have to put on their armor Ephesians 6

these things break down believers ability to trust , i can avow to that truth because on some boards there is so much of the social sins going on it is nothing but constant dissension and fighting thus causeing all to occur aforementioned .

It quenches the Holy spirit in believers and they wind up leaving those forum boards , just as i have all but left zola board on the account of it .

I pray and I have told to them if they don't stop with their social acceptable sins and compromising that they will quench the Holy Spirit and people will leave there .

please pray believers in Christ they take heed and stop their sinning

The Holy spirit always guides and protects me precisely right , and I know beyond doubt now why I had to all but leave another board and I now know that if the ones who claim to be what they say they are do not take heed then more will also leave them as well .
God does not want the faith of believers to be interrupted with people sinning socially

Im glad it has been revealed and I can tell it to u here

I have been lifted up by the wonderful testimonies here above my despair and grieve and I will praise the Lord Jesus he provides a way for me

BLESS ALL U SAINTS HERE FOR YOUR HELP
GOD IS GOOD