Christian Commandments

[manichunter]

I know some will think this a hard and controversial thread, but it is heart felt and honest. It is meant to share personal revelations and convictions learned in my last twelve years of salvation, experiences, and ever increasing search for truth and life.

If torah related subjects offends you, please accept my apology before hand and ignore my attempt to share and discuss a subject I believe to be very much Christian and doctrinally essential for a believers walk of faith and prosperity.


Now the information:

Are these two passages of Scriptures quoted by Jesus not a part of the Torah? Yes, they are a part of the Torah in both content, context, and intent.

Moreover, they are not new commandments as proven by there existence in the OT. Jesus was asked a specific queston when he qouted both of these passages. Later we discover in Scripture that He commands us to obey His commandments.

Where these two commandments meant to be isolated and separated from the Torah? I say no. They provided the purpose and motivation for the rest. But, hey, thats me and what I have learned and experienced.


De 6:1-9 - 1 "Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the judgments which the LORD your God has commanded me to teach you, that you might do them in the land where you are going over to possess it,
2 so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.
3 "O Israel, you should listen and be careful to do it, that it may be well with you and that you may multiply greatly, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You R254 shall love the LORD your God with R255 all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Le 19:17,18 - 17 `You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. `18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.


Are the red highlighted parts Torah? Are saints required to live according to these instructions of Torah. If you say yes, then what. If no, then what.

Jesus did say obey His commandments (possesive used as in ownership). Was He just talking about these two elements of the Torah. If you say yes, then you are still being obediance to an aspect of the Torah. If you say no, then you are completely without commandments and most believe that questions have commandments (torah/instructions to follow).


What say you?

[-SEEKING-]

By Torah are you simply referring to the Old Testament?
Are you inferring that we are supposed to follow the Old Testament aka Torah and try to do what the Israelites couldn't do?
Just out of curiousity are you Jewish?

Galatians 3:23-29
"23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

[Firstfruits]

I know some will think this a hard and controversial thread, but it is heart felt and honest. It is meant to share personal revelations and convictions learned in my last twelve years of salvation, experiences, and ever increasing search for truth and life.

If torah related subjects offends you, please accept my apology before hand and ignore my attempt to share and discuss a subject I believe to be very much Christian and doctrinally essential for a believers walk of faith and prosperity.


Now the information:

Are these two passages of Scriptures quoted by Jesus not a part of the Torah? Yes, they are a part of the Torah in both content, context, and intent.

Moreover, they are not new commandments as proven by there existence in the OT. Jesus was asked a specific queston when he qouted both of these passages. Later we discover in Scripture that He commands us to obey His commandments.

Where these two commandments meant to be isolated and separated from the Torah? I say no. They provided the purpose and motivation for the rest. But, hey, thats me and what I have learned and experienced.


De 6:1-9 - 1 "Now this is the commandment, the statutes and the judgments which the LORD your God has commanded me to teach you, that you might do them in the land where you are going over to possess it,
2 so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.
3 "O Israel, you should listen and be careful to do it, that it may be well with you and that you may multiply greatly, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey.
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You R254 shall love the LORD your God with R255 all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Le 19:17,18 - 17 `You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. `18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.


Are the red highlighted parts Torah? Are saints required to live according to these instructions of Torah. If you say yes, then what. If no, then what.

Jesus did say obey His commandments (possesive used as in ownership). Was He just talking about these two elements of the Torah. If you say yes, then you are still being obediance to an aspect of the Torah. If you say no, then you are completely without commandments and most believe that questions have commandments (torah/instructions to follow).


What say you?

As you know the first five books are the books of Moses. These are what God gave to Moses for Israel to follow, and also promises for those who are not Jews. Israel did not live according to the commandments and therefore all men whether Jew or Gentile became one under sin.

When Christ came Gods promise through the law was fulfilled and all men whether Jew or Gentile can be reconciled to God according to what is written in the Torah.

Do you therefore accept the Torah and all its promises?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Teke]

Hey Manichunter,

First let me say, I don't know that questions have to have commandments, as you've proposed in your initial post.
This line of thought inclines me to think that you are a man of order. Order is likely a necessary thing in your spiritual walk. And that is good. I respect that. I also like order.

I believe the only place we will see any substantial order is in our order (aka rule of worship) of worship, which we see quite literally in churches (irregardless of whether we deem them right or wrong ). At least for me such order was of particular importance.

And I believe a traditional order of worship was maintained by the ancient church.

As to the "commandments" you have put forth. It is not unusual for such commandments to be taught in the manner Jesus has. Some of the OT prophets summed them up in such a condensed manner.

Think about this also. In Luke 16:16 Jesus says, "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is seeking to enter into it [paraphrase of what "pressing into it" means]

As for obedience, we are to be obedient to the faith of Christ. Which includes upholding His Church, of which He and the Apostles are the foundation.
In the next verse, 17, He says, "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail". This means that the smallest part of God's purposes behind the law will not fail to be accomplished.

When I was confused about the OT, God gave me one verse to come to understand. The word is nigh unto thee, in thy mouth and in thy heart that thou mayest do it. It's not in heaven or in earth, it is in us. God puts it there, not us by our reading of the OT and doing what we've read.
That's just been my own experience.

Peace be with you,
Eve

[djh22]

De 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You R254 shall love the LORD your God with R255 all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Le 19:17,18 `18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

Are the red highlighted parts Torah?

Yes of course they are .

Are saints required to live according to these instructions of Torah

Not sure what you mean here and why saints ?

djh22.

[Followtheway]

We know that the wages of sin is death, but do we know what sin is? Sin is lawlessness, but more importantly means against mosaic law (613 laws). We know they are fulfilled, how? Yeshua said he came to fulfill the law not abolish the law. "And the word became flesh and tabernacled with us" the flesh is Yeshua and the law points to him, so he fulfilled the law by coming, did he abolish it? no, that means its not gone and has to be observed, how? by living a life like Yeshua. Did Yeshua follow every law, feast, etc? Yes he did, then how do we be like Christ but not follow anything he did? Were these commands given to Isreal? Yes, who is Isreal is it some people oversea's? no, by definition it is anyone who wrestles with the Lord or has been given power by the Lord. Yeshua said "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." he also said "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

[keck553]

I can't find one verse in my Bible that contains any such thing as 'Christian commandments'.

[djh22]

De 6:8 -9 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Does that mean we should all wear tefillin on our arms and forehead and fix mezuzah to our doorposts ?

djh22.

[keck553]

Does that mean we should all wear tefillin on our arms and forehead and fix mezuzah to our doorposts ?

djh22.

I think a lot of this depends on if your are more afraid of your friends and neighbors' opinions than loving God.

[djh22]

Do you mean appearing to be Jewish ?

djh22

[keck553]

Do you mean appearing to be Jewish ?

djh22

What does obeying God have to do with Jews?

[djh22]

What does obeying God have to do with Jews?

I mean to the average onlooker a person with a small black box attached to his forehead would look Jewish would he not?
Likewise a house with a mezuzah fixed to each door post would be linked to the Jewish faith.

Jews also obey God you know.


djh22.

[keck553]

I mean to the average onlooker a person with a small black box attached to his forehead would look Jewish would he not?
Likewise a house with a mezuzah fixed to each door post would be linked to the Jewish faith.

Jews also obey God you know.


djh22.

Most say Jesus wore one. Did He look like a Jew? Should that embarass you before your friends that you worship a Messiah that had a mezuzah on his doorpost and looked like a Jew?

Wearing a box on your head is Jewish, because it's a man made tradition. I wouldn't wear one. God didn't say make a box out of hide, put some Torah commands in it and stick it on your head. God is illustrating the process of putting His commandments on your heart, and instilling them in your house. Traditions are our way of expressing love to God. What about His way? Do we even care? If more dad's actually became the priests that God made them to be and taught their kids about the ways of God instead of tossing them like a nuisance into a chuch day care during services, we just might have a more faithful body of believers today, don't you think?

[manichunter]

By Torah are you simply referring to the Old Testament?
Are you inferring that we are supposed to follow the Old Testament aka Torah and try to do what the Israelites couldn't do?
Just out of curiousity are you Jewish?

Galatians 3:23-29
"23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

The word torah has multiple meanings and usages like the world church has come to mean multiple things and used for different things. People like me and you have decided to assign these meanings and give them legitimacy.

Church can mean a congregation/assembly of people, the greater body of Christ, a building where people meet for religious worship, a religious experience with a great emotional experience (this only applies to Afro Americans), and etc.

The word torah means multiple things as well. It is assigned to the first five books of the Bible. It is assigned to a collection of commandments, statutues, judgments, and ordinances. It is assigned to a legal term. It is assigned to oral laws that are outside of the first five books of the Bible.

I am using the one denoting the collection of commandments, statutues, judgments, and ordinances.

No I am not Jewish or trying to immulate a physical Jew. I am speaking about the same Jew Paul is talking about when he says that not all who call themselves are Jews.

I am not trying to observe torah for advantage, righteousness, or because I am trying to prove a point, but for the same reason Abraham did.

[djh22]

Most say Jesus wore one. Did He look like a Jew? Should that embarass you before your friends that you worship a Messiah that had a mezuzah on his doorpost and looked like a Jew?

It wouldn't embarrass me in the slightest but I regret to say antisemitism does,I don't know where you live but around here it's rife.

If more dad's actually became the priests that God made them to be and taught their kids about the ways of God instead of tossing them like a nuisance into a chuch day care during services, we just might have a more faithful body of believers today, don't you think?

Yes I do and that is precisely the point I was trying to make from the OP that quoted Deuteronomy 6:1-9.

djh22.