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Thread: Question about the phrase "Eloi Eloi, Lama Sabachthani"?

  1. #1

    Question about the phrase "Eloi Eloi, Lama Sabachthani"?

    In Mathew 27:46 + Mark 15:34 it records Jesus saying Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which translates to “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    The NIV study notes in my bible say it is a quote of Psalms 22:1 and it reveals how deeply Jesus felt his abandonment by God as he bore the sins of mankind.

    If Jesus is God, in the sense of the Trinity, how can God abandon Jesus; as Jesus is God?


    Thanks


    Chad


    *(Mat 27:46 KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    *(Mark 15:34 KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    * (Psa 22:1 KJV) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?



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    Postmodern liberal teachers are using this exact argument to prove that Jesus was not God. The irony of this is, however, that these people think they are free to believe whatever suits them in the Bible, while all the rest is discarded as "not authentic" or "the interpretation of the Bible writer. So, when Jesus said "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" they accept it as the real, authentic words of Christ, but when Jesus in so many places claim to be Eternal, Divine, with the Father, the Creator, then it is dismissed as the idea of the Bible writer.

    Impossible to argue with people who do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God. To believers, however, we can explain what Jesus said on the cross. He was, of course completely man AND completely God, in a way that we can not understand fully. Therefore, when Jesus said these words, He was spaeking in His humanity and He did in fact, as man, experience on the cross wat it means to be foresaken of God in order that we who believe in Him, would never again be foresaken by God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    In Mathew 27:46 + Mark 15:34 it records Jesus saying Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which translates to “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    The NIV study notes in my bible say it is a quote of Psalms 22:1 and it reveals how deeply Jesus felt his abandonment by God as he bore the sins of mankind.

    If Jesus is God, in the sense of the Trinity, how can God abandon Jesus; as Jesus is God?


    Thanks


    Chad


    *(Mat 27:46 KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    *(Mark 15:34 KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    * (Psa 22:1 KJV) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?


    When someone tells you or me, that GOD IS Omni-Present (Everywhere and/or Everywhere Present); they haven't told us the whole/entire story; in fact they've left out the most important part of that TRUTH:

    GOD IS Omni-Present, where HE CHOOSES TO BE.
    As an example of what I mean, is the fact of Hell. "Hell" and/or "the lake of fire and brimstone", is nothing more than the Total and Complete Absence of GOD's Presence.
    Internally, GOD never left JESUS CHRIST; because within the 100% of JESUS CHRIST'S Humanity, was still THE 100% of GOD/JESUS' Divinity.

    Yet, When JESUS CHRIST cried out, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which translates to “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", it was The 100% Humanity of JESUS CHRIST that was crying out. And GOD is so very serious about HIS Righteous Hatred of Sin, that HE, as it were, forsook JESUS CHRIST WHO had all of our sins upon HIM. . .but not in HIM.

    JESUS' Divinity make HIM, THE WORD of GOD, and/or GOD THE SON/THE SON of GOD;
    while JESUS' Humanity makes HIM, Man/The Son of Man WHO'S GOD and FATHER, IS our GOD and FATHER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    In Mathew 27:46 + Mark 15:34 it records Jesus saying Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which translates to “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    If Jesus is God, in the sense of the Trinity, how can God abandon Jesus; as Jesus is God?

    *(Mat 27:46 KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

    [/COLOR][/COLOR]
    He wasn't bringing the trinity into question or saying he was forsaken....he was pointing to the entire 22Psalm in vindication of the truth of WHO he was.

  5. #5
    He was pointing to the entire 22Psalm in vindication of the truth of WHO he was.

    What does that mean, can you explain it a bit more?


    Thanks


    Chad.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    He wasn't bringing the trinity into question or saying he was forsaken....he was pointing to the entire 22Psalm in vindication of the truth of WHO he was.

  6. #6
    Julian Guest
    The Aramaic scriptures have that verse as "Eli Eli, Lemana Shabbachtani" "My God My God, for this was I spared."

    It was a victory cry of his life's accomplishment, not a defeating cry of his Father leaving him at the most important time in his life.

    Seems strange that shortly beforehand Jesus just had said that he would not be alone because the Father was with him. And he was doing everything the Father asked him to do. If God forsook him, then he wasn't with him like Christ had just taught he was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    In Mathew 27:46 + Mark 15:34 it records Jesus saying Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which translates to “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    The NIV study notes in my bible say it is a quote of Psalms 22:1 and it reveals how deeply Jesus felt his abandonment by God as he bore the sins of mankind.

    If Jesus is God, in the sense of the Trinity, how can God abandon Jesus; as Jesus is God?




    Chad


    *(Mat 27:46 KJV) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    *(Mark 15:34 KJV) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    * (Psa 22:1 KJV) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?



    The Greek word for God is "theos", it means deity or divinity. Most places in the NT the word theos is used as a name for the Father, however there are a few uses where it is used of Christ, as in John 1. Christ is not the Father, however He is deity or divine. So Jesus is God, means Jesus is divine or deity. He is not the Father.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    He wasn't bringing the trinity into question or saying he was forsaken....he was pointing to the entire 22Psalm in vindication of the truth of WHO he was.
    Take that Bart Ehrman.

  9. #9
    Thanks Butch,

    That makes sense. I was wondering how Jesus could be the son and the father at the same time, while on earth. He clearly was not. He was the son of God, as well as God devine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Butch5 View Post
    The Greek word for God is "theos", it means deity or divinity. Most places in the NT the word theos is used as a name for the Father, however there are a few uses where it is used of Christ, as in John 1. Christ is not the Father, however He is deity or divine. So Jesus is God, means Jesus is divine or deity. He is not the Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Thanks Butch,

    That makes sense. I was wondering how Jesus could be the son and the father at the same time, while on earth. He clearly was not. He was the son of God, as well as God devine.
    You're quite welcome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian View Post
    The Aramaic scriptures have that verse as "Eli Eli, Lemana Shabbachtani" "My God My God, for this was I spared."

    It was a victory cry of his life's accomplishment, not a defeating cry of his Father leaving him at the most important time in his life.

    Seems strange that shortly beforehand Jesus just had said that he would not be alone because the Father was with him. And he was doing everything the Father asked him to do. If God forsook him, then he wasn't with him like Christ had just taught he was.
    From what would He have been spared?
    V

  12. #12
    djh22 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Take that Bart Ehrman.
    I'd be interested to know what his interpretation is . I'll get around to reading his books one day.

    djh22.

  13. #13
    Bart Ehrman is an agnostic Bible critic. He's generally well-respected enough, but he presents a number of concepts in the Bible very inconsistently with his allegedly "critical" mind.

    In essence, Bart Ehrman claims that the four gospels present Christ differently and inconsistently, and that the gospels in which Christ says "Eli Eli lama sabachthani" depict him as having felt God abandoned him (whereas the other two gospels present him as adamant and resolved even while on the cross). The problem with Ehrman's interpretation is that he completely ignores the fact that Christ was quoting from Psalm 22 and, as David Taylor pointed out, this was a psalm declaring the vindication and victory of the speaker, not abandonment and failure.

    Bart Ehrman's textbooks are certainly helpful in regards to providing historical background and context to the books of the Bible, but the moment he starts talking about God and Christ, his information falls flat because he (almost intentionally) doesn't provide every approach (such as the one David Taylor provided).

  14. #14
    djh22 Guest
    Thanks markedward,
    I'd heard of him and his books but haven't got around to reading them.
    I must admit to struggling in my youth with the relationship with the crucifixion and Psalm 22 ,I'd just started studying translations and I just couldn't get to grips with some of the mistranslations,the classic one of course was "k'ari" as thorns or pierced, rather than "ari" like a lion .

    Best.

    djh22.

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    An aside: Was Christ quoting Psalm 22, or was the Psalmist looking forward and quoting Christ?
    Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.

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