Rebellious Teen

[Poetry4Me75]

I know teen rebellion is common, but I do not know what to do. My 17 yr old son hates me. I mean, he absolutely hates me. I keep finding letters he writes to his girlfriend(s) and one he wrote to me and they are all about how much he hates me and how selfish I am and how I think I am god and he hates church and doesn't believe in God, etc. These are all anger issues, but they seem very unfounded to me. He calls all Christians hyprcrits and says they are ruining the world by trying to tell other people how to live.
I try very hard to be fair and reasonable without compromising Truth and Biblical moral standards. Everyone I have sought counsel from IRL says the same thing "you are doing the right thing" but if I am doing it so right, how is he turning out so WRONG?
His letters are so peppered with profanity I can barely stand to read them. Of course, what he wants and expects is totally unrealistic...complete freedom, never being told NO, no curfews, etc. AND when he is mean to his younger siblings, I am supposed to "let it go" because, according to him "they deserved it".
He is very selfish and mean, I mean VERY and very verbally abusive to his siblings. He even says he is proud to be seflish. I have tried counseling and he is unwilling and uncooperative. Since he rejects God, he will not hear godly counsel. He is a huge hyporcrit, calling me selfish all the time and calling ME a hypocrit.
Honestly, maybe I have been TOO lax, because I expect him to be responsible for himself and that is about all. He says that is unreasonable but yet he wants emancipation. He is obviously naive to what being an adult really is.
I am re-married and we have raised the kids in church from day 1. We practice what we preach and are, really, very sefless people! I do not mean to toot my own horn, but setting the good example is NOT working. I admit when I am wrong and make sure they see I am not perfect.
His language and how he talks to his friends is horrid. He is so angry and his reasons are all very petty. They are HUGE to him but he has probably had it TOO good and is probably spoiled. His biological father is in another state and rarely sees them. We have seriously considered sending him to live with his bio-dad because of how he treats my other 2 kids (they all have the same dad).
He wants to move out as soon as he is 18 and I am all for it but he is taking NO steps towards that goal. He does not even have a driver's license yet. We keep trying to encourage him and have helped him out a lot (more than we should) but he is also "lazy and proud of it" and will not take steps for his OWN goals!
He has abused caffiene a time or two but his drug tests come up clean. He says caffeine is "fun" and harmless called me a hypocrit because I drink one cup of coffee every morning.
I honestly do not know what to do. I love him, but I cannot stand to be around him at this point. All I have been doing, besides constantly seeking counsel from other Christians, is "keep on keeping on" and "kill'em with kindness" and I just treat him well even tho he uses me and says these awful things about me to other people. I am not afriad of confronting him and I don't walk on eggshells.
I really want to send him away, but I don't want him to feel un-loved. I love him, but I do not like him. I know this sounds harsh but this has been going on for YEARS and while we are less than a year away from his 18th, I know he will fall flat on his face when he tries to make it on his own, what am I supposed to do? Emancipation is not an option. I sometimes wish it were.

[-SEEKING-]

If it helps I was a total jerk to my parents at that age. Going so far as joining a gang and eventually running away. But God found me one day and made me the man I am today. sometimes you gotta let them go physically but never stop praying for him. If he leaves he'll learn the hard way how much he needs you.

[moonglow]

I know teen rebellion is common, but I do not know what to do. My 17 yr old son hates me. I mean, he absolutely hates me. I keep finding letters he writes to his girlfriend(s) and one he wrote to me and they are all about how much he hates me and how selfish I am and how I think I am god and he hates church and doesn't believe in God, etc. These are all anger issues, but they seem very unfounded to me. He calls all Christians hyprcrits and says they are ruining the world by trying to tell other people how to live.
I try very hard to be fair and reasonable without compromising Truth and Biblical moral standards. Everyone I have sought counsel from IRL says the same thing "you are doing the right thing" but if I am doing it so right, how is he turning out so WRONG?
His letters are so peppered with profanity I can barely stand to read them. Of course, what he wants and expects is totally unrealistic...complete freedom, never being told NO, no curfews, etc. AND when he is mean to his younger siblings, I am supposed to "let it go" because, according to him "they deserved it".
He is very selfish and mean, I mean VERY and very verbally abusive to his siblings. He even says he is proud to be seflish. I have tried counseling and he is unwilling and uncooperative. Since he rejects God, he will not hear godly counsel. He is a huge hyporcrit, calling me selfish all the time and calling ME a hypocrit.
Honestly, maybe I have been TOO lax, because I expect him to be responsible for himself and that is about all. He says that is unreasonable but yet he wants emancipation. He is obviously naive to what being an adult really is.
I am re-married and we have raised the kids in church from day 1. We practice what we preach and are, really, very sefless people! I do not mean to toot my own horn, but setting the good example is NOT working. I admit when I am wrong and make sure they see I am not perfect.
His language and how he talks to his friends is horrid. He is so angry and his reasons are all very petty. They are HUGE to him but he has probably had it TOO good and is probably spoiled. His biological father is in another state and rarely sees them. We have seriously considered sending him to live with his bio-dad because of how he treats my other 2 kids (they all have the same dad).
He wants to move out as soon as he is 18 and I am all for it but he is taking NO steps towards that goal. He does not even have a driver's license yet. We keep trying to encourage him and have helped him out a lot (more than we should) but he is also "lazy and proud of it" and will not take steps for his OWN goals!
He has abused caffiene a time or two but his drug tests come up clean. He says caffeine is "fun" and harmless called me a hypocrit because I drink one cup of coffee every morning.
I honestly do not know what to do. I love him, but I cannot stand to be around him at this point. All I have been doing, besides constantly seeking counsel from other Christians, is "keep on keeping on" and "kill'em with kindness" and I just treat him well even tho he uses me and says these awful things about me to other people. I am not afriad of confronting him and I don't walk on eggshells.
I really want to send him away, but I don't want him to feel un-loved. I love him, but I do not like him. I know this sounds harsh but this has been going on for YEARS and while we are less than a year away from his 18th, I know he will fall flat on his face when he tries to make it on his own, what am I supposed to do? Emancipation is not an option. I sometimes wish it were.

Wow, I feel for you. He sounds alot like my sisters three adoptive kids (two adults now and the youngest just turned 18) and has flunked his drivers ed class..is doing nothing to achieve these same goals so he can move out....though claims he can't wait to move out from under my horrible sister too! ugh. He also is verbally abusive to her. The thing is though all her adopted kids were from abusive homes. Which is why the state had taken them from their bio mom's. I am talking about very serious type of abuse too. When this happens to a baby it causes them to have RAD...reactive attachment disorder...they don't bond like they should and as a result it causes all sort of major behavioral problems. This can happen in babies that were very sick or premature where the parents couldn't be with them much while they were in the hospital....any chance that happened with your son?

The other times I have seen kids this bad was due to a mental illnesses...many times bipolar which can run in families. Also other types of problems like this. I used to belong to this message board for parents of children and teens with behavioral problems like this: http://www.conductdisorders.com/

Its a really good board but its not a per say Christian board..there are Christians on it but also many of other beliefs or none at all but most are pretty nice. You can get some ideas of how to get help for your son...get him tested and checked to see if this is something like ADHD that went on to develop into a conduct disorder of some type. Just figure out what is going on with him. I think this is going too far to be just simply teen rebellion.

I also want you to consider learning about spiritual warfare. Read my thread here about what I went through with my son and I hope something there can help you: Spiritual Warfare for our children

You and your family will be in my prayers. I hear the hurt and frustration and I know that all too well...

God bless

[RabbiKnife]

He is a TEENAGER. HE HAS NO RIGHTS!

1. Take the door to his room off the hinges. He doesn't have a right to a door.
2. Take all "his stuff" out of "his room." This is no longer "his room." This is where you permit him to sleep.
3. Put a pillow, a sheet, and a clean blanket on the floor. If he earns it by good behavior, he can use a mattress in about two weeks.
4. Each night, place the clothing he is to wear the next day at the door to the room in which he is permitted to sleep.
5. No electronics, no phone, no motorcar, not a single luxury...Like Robinson Crusoe, it's primitive as can be.

He can either grow up or fail.

[moonglow]

He is a TEENAGER. HE HAS NO RIGHTS!

1. Take the door to his room off the hinges. He doesn't have a right to a door.
2. Take all "his stuff" out of "his room." This is no longer "his room." This is where you permit him to sleep.
3. Put a pillow, a sheet, and a clean blanket on the floor. If he earns it by good behavior, he can use a mattress in about two weeks.
4. Each night, place the clothing he is to wear the next day at the door to the room in which he is permitted to sleep.
5. No electronics, no phone, no motorcar, not a single luxury...Like Robinson Crusoe, it's primitive as can be.

He can either grow up or fail.

This is what they tell many parents on that parent message board with kids like this...but I would recommend it be done only he is tested and other problems are ruled out and only done under the guidance of a therapist. The reasons being with teens like this that many times are bigger and stronger then their own parents, can get violent. The parents have to be ready literally for anything..including calling the police. Its very easy to say, well ok just call 911...not so easy when you are being physically attacked and the phone is knocked out of your hand and broken...not so easy if they come after you with a bat or something else...not so easy to get away if someone bigger and stronger then you has you cornered and yes I have seen post on that board where it came to that. The parents have to have a plan in place because a teen this angry will blow....

Just having them hauled off to juvie isn't always the answer either...not if a mental illness is involved and many times it is. What normal, happy, healthy teen acts like this? They don't. There are red flags all over the place he is out of control already and needs help...how much and how far it needs to go is yet to be seen.

I tried some of this 'tough love' with my son...though he was very young and I never took it this far...it always backfired...always. The only thing that finally helped was spiritual warfare. Not this power control stuff.

I would be very careful in doing this...as I said a plan needs to be made for the worse reactions. If he has a therapist and a plan in place and gets out of control and the police are called, instead of going to juvie he can be taken to a mental health hospital that deals with teens like this and tested ...find out what is going on with him and a plan made. PS. I don't think you can legally take their mattress and make them sleep on the hard floor...he would call CPS and that would likely be seen as child abuse.

God bless

[Poetry4Me75]

Thanks for your replies. I have read our states emancipation laws because he wants to be emancipated. There is no way that is going to happen. I do know there are certain things you HAVE to do for your child, having a mattress is one of them. We have removed his door before when he slams it. I have taken away his personal effects.
Yes, he is bigger and stronger than me.
I have told him, that until he is 18, this is a dictatorship and what we say goes. We are very firm and consistent, which is why (I think) his antics get worse and worse, he is trying to find our breaking point.
My dad is a Christian counselor (has all kinds of degrees) and he says my son has a personality disorder. He said it is not so much a behavior issue as a character/personality issue. All we can really do is pray and bide (sp) our time and be prepared to call the police if he gets violent. He HAS fought me before, but in a defensive way (I was trying to take something away from him).
No, he was not a premie but I was a teen mom and I have always wondered about this. I was 16 when I had him. My first marriage was verbally abusive and he is just like his dad even tho, since age 6, he has not been raised by his dad. But he is the only one old enough to remember living with his dad and all the fights, not to mention I was really a bad mom back then. This was before I came to Christ, it is a long story. I am sure his early childhood was not very good for him.
I will write more later.
I cried most the day yesterday and prayed a lot. God answered my prayers in the counsel of my dad and my husband came home early to be with me. As of now, I have a peace about this. God is amazing if I can have peace in my soul when I definitely do NOT have peace with my son.

[moonglow]

Thanks for your replies. I have read our states emancipation laws because he wants to be emancipated. There is no way that is going to happen. I do know there are certain things you HAVE to do for your child, having a mattress is one of them. We have removed his door before when he slams it. I have taken away his personal effects.
Yes, he is bigger and stronger than me.
I have told him, that until he is 18, this is a dictatorship and what we say goes. We are very firm and consistent, which is why (I think) his antics get worse and worse, he is trying to find our breaking point.
My dad is a Christian counselor (has all kinds of degrees) and he says my son has a personality disorder. He said it is not so much a behavior issue as a character/personality issue. All we can really do is pray and bide (sp) our time and be prepared to call the police if he gets violent. He HAS fought me before, but in a defensive way (I was trying to take something away from him).
No, he was not a premie but I was a teen mom and I have always wondered about this. I was 16 when I had him. My first marriage was verbally abusive and he is just like his dad even tho, since age 6, he has not been raised by his dad. But he is the only one old enough to remember living with his dad and all the fights, not to mention I was really a bad mom back then. This was before I came to Christ, it is a long story. I am sure his early childhood was not very good for him.
I will write more later.
I cried most the day yesterday and prayed a lot. God answered my prayers in the counsel of my dad and my husband came home early to be with me. As of now, I have a peace about this. God is amazing if I can have peace in my soul when I definitely do NOT have peace with my son.

I am glad you found some support in your family with him...and I hope we can support you too. Yes its very painful to go through this. I hope that parent board can help you and my thread on spiritual warfare...in the end that was the only thing that truly helped my son. I had an verbally abusive husband that put my son through alot too. That kind of thing can affect them deeply as you will see with my post and my son hasn't been around his dad since he was four. Alot of the reason my son acted the way he did was anxiety and feeling unsafe because he had no control....those with anxiety think if they can control the situation, even by getting violent, they will feel better and the inner turmoil will go away. While my son is no longer out of control he still deals with alot of anxiety...and is on medication for it which has helped alot. I tried being extremely strict with him because of his behavior but that made his anxiety worse which made his rages worse. I was trying to get him under control. So what I did was give him a 'sense' of control.

For instance when he got into trouble rather then grounding him for the day, or taking away the TV or whatever where he had no control which made everything worse...instead I would tell him he was grounded until he did some chores...simple things (he was very young so keep that in mind) like mopping the kitchen floor or even cleaning the toilet or tub. As soon as he was done with that he would no longer be grounded...could watch TV, go out and play, etc. This put the ball in his park, so to speak and gave him a 'sense' of control. The end goal though was me letting him know I was the boss, not him. He was not going to run things like he thought he wanted too. Because he was so rebellious of course he would at first refuse to do any chores. If he argued with me, I added more chores to do. It was totally up to him how long he was grounded giving him a 'sense of control'. That doesn't mean we still didn't battle in a sense. He would try to turn the TV on anyway so I undid the cable to it.

Eventually he would give in and do the chores and the strangest thing would happen. He would start singing while doing the chores! He would change complete from fighting me and being so angry to being happy while doing the chores! At first I was completely amazed and puzzled by this.

I think part of the reason was he finally felt some relief..he was doing something to control the situation...and kids really do want boundaries set and depend on their parents to enforce those...it actually gives them a sense of safety. Because of what he went through with his dad...exposed to some terrible things and truly being a helpless victim that had no control over what was happening...he needed a sense of control in his life. That eased his anxiety alot. This gave him that without me just letting him get away with his bad mouthing or whatever he had done.

My sister tried to run things with her kids in a very strict manner...very strict. It never worked, they got worse and worse and worse until finally as soon as they were old enough, she helped them move out because they were so awful. She was constantly calling the police. They were in therapy too and off and on medication...half the time they refused to take it. While all three were dx with RAD or some forum of it later they were all dx with bipolar. I think my ex, my son's dad, might have been bipolar. Mental illness runs through his family.

Anyway all I know is all we can do is try different things until we find something that works. With these kids the usual conquenses don't seem to work. So we have to get a little more creative. My son is 13 now and rarely gives me too many problems though I realize coming into his teen years that might change..I sure hope not! Usually when he gets into trouble all I have to do is talk to him and he stops it...once in a great while its bad enough he loses something or has to do a chore. You would never think he was the same child I describe on my spiritual warfare thread. And I have to give all the credit for that to God.

God bless

[livingwaters]

Prayers going up for you and your son....tough love is tough....but necessary in lots of cases. If our love is not strong enough for our children that we can allow them to fall on their faces and let them learn from their mistakes, then we are doing them a grave injustice. WE MUST NOT cave in to their "tantrums!" As long as a child is under the roof of a true Christian family, where no abuse is taking place, then they should be made to abide by the rules of the parents. If they don't, take action...talk to a police officer who deals with youth and young adults. Ask their opinion of what works and what doesn't, in their opinion. Then, use your judgement on what to do next...the Bible is very specific about how to raise a child....we dont' usually go that route..and when it's too late, we wonder why...I said usually...don't get offended...sometimes we let our kids get away with stuff because we feel guilty about their childhood and the part we might have played in it. This does the child no good at all, because they soon learn to push "those buttons!"

Hope this helps! God Bless

[matthew7and1]

I just want to say that #1 I am praying for you! Like a warrior!
and #2 I am so glad you brought your concern here. I had been previously too ashamed to mention my issues with my step-son until reading someone elses post. Previous to that the only person I discussed it with was my MIL, who was also jaded. Since i have brought my issue out in the open and shared it here, things have improved dramatically. In my heart and with my step-sons behavior. I will pray that while God is still making changes in my heart and life as well as my step sons, favorable progress will be made in your family as well. I pray that you keep hope and faith!!!!

[Twin2]

As little as nine months ago, I was in a very similar situation with my son. Praise the Lord, he is back in church now.

I too had raised my kids in church. I wasn't a perfect mom, but I feel I have been a good mom. I was just reading yesterday about love being what draws a man to salvation. I wish I would remember where that was. That is certainly what I found to be true with my son. Do everything you do in love. Keeping communications open may mean that you can't argue over your beliefs verses his actions. I'm not saying to accept his deeds. I am just saying, pray about it and decide what you must do in response. For us, we were perfectly clear about what we believed and expected but we had to be sure that what we did in response to him was truly of a Godly nature. Emotional responses were causing strife. Making demands drove him further away. I believe God was telling me to show my son his love, to let him deal with his heart.

Hold to Proverbs 22:6 that says "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." I had a hard time with that for a while. I always believed that meant the child would not go out into the world. In my case, my son did exactly that. I now believe that every child that is taught about the Lord must come to a point in their life where they have to acknowledge what they were taught and decide which way they want to live their life. For some, the decision is easy. For others, they fight it. They must taste the world first. I also believe that each person has a free will and feared that my children would choose not to serve the Lord, thus conflicting with this scripture. I had to BELIEVE this scripture myself.

I will say that in going through the trials with my son, and before that my daughter, took a toll on who I was. I really felt like I was somehow to blame. I cried for two years. I felt like this time in my life really held me back from being the person I wanted to be in the Lord. All I ever prayed about were my children. I would ask God what I did so wrong and beg him to save them. Then finally I believe the Lord showed me that I was mourning and it was time to stop. My children weren't dead. I needed to trust him. I could not fix this problem, no matter what I did. That didn't mean I needed to say Lord take care of it and ignore it. That's a cop out. I did continue to ask the Lord to save my children. The difference was, I started to believe that he would save them. I started to allow him to work on their hearts, rather than me trying to convince them they were so wrong. Once this happened, I started to see positive changes happen almost overnight.

Now there were a lot of events in my son's life while he was out of church that influenced his decision to get back to the Lord. He lost a few of his friends. Some were using drugs and alcohol and I believe their deaths were related to that. Then a 16 year old friend died in his sleep. We are not sure of his salvation. My son also had a serious accident, in which he knows the Lord spared him. A car turned left in front of him (oncoming traffic). He swerved to miss her and his truck started to roll. His truck became airborned and flipped several times in the air before it finally hit the ground and rolled. A speaker in the truck flew out and seemed to be what stopped the truck from rolling over and crushing the cab. My son also was not wearing a seatbelt and had to hold onto the steering wheel to keep from being thrown. He escaped that accident with an abrasion to the shoulder. Praise the Lord. That wasn't an event that instantly saved him, but it certainly started to turn him in the right direction.

My son had moved out of the house at 17, staying with one friend after another until his accident. Without a vehicle, he felt he could not stay on his own and came back home. During the time he was in rebellion, he experimented with drugs and alcohol. Even after the accident I feared it may be an alcoholic. He even dropped out of school.

Today, my son has his high school diploma and has recently joined the Air Guard. He is back in church. He is not as close to the Lord as I would like, but he calls himself a Christian. He is twenty years old and I really feared that it would take him a lifetime to make peace with the Lord. God is merciful and just. I am thankful that he spared my son and gave him the space to repent.

My advice to parents now is to continue to draw close to the Lord. Your walk with the Lord will do more to help your children than anything you can do or say. Your walk with the Lord is what will keep you strong through this trial. Your walk with the Lord will give you the wisdom to know how to deal with your children in their rebellion.

[Twin2]

The scripture I tried to remember in my reply was actually Romans 2:4. "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"
I was referring to the last part, "the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance".

[Poetry4Me75]

Thanks Twin2!! And everyone. Sorry it took me so long to respond, it has been a very busy week and I am dealing with health issues.
Last week (Wed and Thur) I had a huge sense of peace wash over me. It was the first time in years I have felt God. I do not even know what changed. For other reasons (reasons apart from my won) I have been praying for several years just to hear from God again. It has been the dark night of my soul. I spent two days just worshipping God. It rbings tears to my eyes now. I prayed desperately for that to never end.
I have always known that MY attitude could make a huge difference but I never knew how to actualize that.
I know from experience (with my ex) that you cannot change a person, nor can you prove someone is wrong who refuses to see it for themselves. They will "rationalize" their behavior in any crazy way they can to justify it. This is what I am dealing with. I tend to be angry at my son for the injustices he puts on me. I am definitely his scape goat.
For example: I took him to buy new shoes. He has flat feet and I was trying to buy him a better quality pair for his feet and he insisted on getting an $11 pair (because he just wanted to get it overwith). Later I hear him talking to his girlfriend, saying "yeah, my mom is such a cheapscape and only bought me $11 shoes" ??!!
I did nothing. he did not know I had overheard his conversation.
The best response form me is usually to do nothing (reactive). It has been years learning this. I have done nothignb but lean on the verse that says if you bring your child up in the way of the Lord that when he is old, he will not depart from it. I do not know if he is saved, he did profess faith once and was baptised (12 years old). He did seem to change after that for a few years. I have blamed most of this on him being a teen and typical rebellion. But I have seen other parents raise their kids and they never go through this rebellion phase.
My dad's good advice, treat him the same no matter what. Be consistent. We were always consistent, tho, but I think it was consistency in anger, not love. I mean, I absolutely love my son (even tho I rather do not like him). I have had dreams he has died or gotten lost and felt guilty. I do tend to blame myself and have to resist the urge to "make it up to him", ya know, fromwhen he was a tot.
Right after my last post here we had another confrontation. The last time he was out, he broke his curfew. I was angry, but when he got home all I said was "you're late, I am unimpressed" but other than that we did not discuss it. I even said it almost jovially. Next weekend when he wanted to go to his girlfriend's piano recital, I told him "no". Of course, he immediately got upset and asked why, started playing the martyr. He said it was "important to him". All I said was (God give me strength my heart was racing and my husband was not home and I was afraid of this confrontation) "Since you could not get home on time last weekend, I don't think you need to go anywhere this weekend". I did add that if he wants people to care about what is important to HIM, he ought to consider caring about what is important to others. (knowing he had told me some months before that being seflish was the only was to survive in this world, yet he demands ME to be totally selfless, double standard) He got mad and walked out of the house (in the pouring rain). He was gone half an hour (there is nowhere for him to go, we live in the country miles from civilization). He showed back up and did not talk to me the rest of the night. I slept on the couch that night (he threatens to run away all the time). I have told him I will call the cops if he ever leaves. Moving out before 18 is not an option and dropping out is illegal before 18. He did not leave and was talking to me again the next day (sort of). But when I went to the store, I still bought him his candybar (I do this every week, I always buy my kids a candybar on my weekly trips) and did not act any differently. I know he had written his GF and talked to her and called me all sorts of names. He lies, makes it sound WAY worse than it is. Of course he never mentioned WHY I said no. GRR. He was back to being cordial and yesterday he asked me if he was allowed to do anything this weekend. I said yes. Punishment was given, as far as I am concerned, it is over. He gets another chance and if he blows curfew again the same thing will happen. The next time he asks to do something the answer will be no.
What gets me is that he is usually very cordial to my face, he even volunteered to help me for 2 hours cutting briars and burning them (he hates work!). I rewarded him, but not hugely. I gave him a pop (we don't drink pop generally). That is a soda for you southerners, lol. I was astonished he even helped. I mean, astonished! I appreciated it and told him so. I do not think he was doing it to get rewarded. Maybe he feels guilty for being so two-faced to me?
But then the stuff he says in his letters I find, the phone calls, it is very profane and very hateful. So much I am afraid, soemtimes, to be alone with him. This summer I will be spending 5 weeks alone with him. My other 2 kids will be at their dad's and my husband will be at work.
I know that anything said without love is not "heard". If only he would realize that what I do, I do because I love him. He sees it as me trying to ruin and control his life. I know, one day, he will likely see (like I did) when he is probably my age. Younger if I am lucky. I suppose this is the same problem I have with The Father when I cannot udnerstand the "why's" of life and it certainly does not look as if God is acting in love towards me.
But I know that without Christ, there is no hope, and as far as I know, he is living without Jesus. And I know there is free will, but I cannot take for granted my son will live long enough to see the error of his ways. If he was killed in a car accident, how would I mourn? I would not be assured he was in heaven. I know I cannot save him, nor can I ever really know the state of his soul. But right now his actions and choices dictate that he is without Christ.
I should not mourn my children because they are still alive? But are they, if they are dead to Christ?

[moonglow]

That is pretty sad when you are afraid of your own son...but I have been there..its a terrible way to feel!

Given his age and size there are going to be some things you cannot stop him from doing. I wouldn't try to physically stop him from running away for instance. Sure you can call the police after he leaves, but don't try to stop him. If he gets too aggressive you may have to walk out of the house and leave yourself! Make some plans like this ahead of time instead of trying to figure out what to do in the heat of the moment. On his nasty talk...also realize that most of this is just talk. I said horrible things about my mom as a teenager but I certainly wasn't dangerous to her in any way. Teens blow off steam. Very few ever act on it though. Its like a dog that barks and snarls but when he has the chance never bites. They just like putting up a big front.

Now my sister I told you about that had three that acted like your son...they actually did get physically..mostly with each other not with her, but what she did was put a key lock on her bedroom door and could literally lock herself in...she also had access to a phone in there and also locked up dangerous items they could use like knifes, scissors, etc. If you think he does have the potential for violence this is something you might consider.

I ever really know the state of his soul. But right now his actions and choices dictate that he is without Christ.
I should not mourn my children because they are still alive? But are they, if they are dead to Christ?

You know I wouldn't give up hope on this. If the Son of Sam can become a saved, born again Christian, I think rebellious teenagers can too. Just because he is backsliden doesn't mean the Lord won't bring him back to him when he is older and more mature. Instead of mourning as if their is no hope, pray for his salvation instead. As bad as things were and still are with my sister's kids...she has never given up hope they will be saved.

God bless

[Papa Polar Bear]

Why is it that we are only hearing your side of the issue, and I mean, where is your Husband? Why does it seem like you are the only one dealing with this? This, as a husband and father of a 12, 14, 17, 18 and 19 year old, if find disturbing.

What ever happened to a good ol' fashioned butt whoopin. As I read your posts, I see that he talks a big game, but has not really done anything serious. Yeah, he came home late, but he came home. He stormed out, in the rain, but he came back. He has helped, but has written horrible things as well. All this points to is the teenager that is testing his limits.

CHILDREN LOVE BOUNDARIES!!! They may balk some here and there, but they are really looking for the limits so they know that somebody is paying attention. If the fence gets wider and wider by placating him, it takes longer and longer to get back to the center. If he truly wanted to leave, he would have, and if he does, let him go. A taste of the cold cruel world will make a much larger impression with him than you would think. And I also think that he is talking about leaving at 18 because you are not letting him leave now. Once he understands that he can NOT make it on his own, especially if he is given the chance, I will bet a dollar to a donut that he changes his tune real quick. I know all of mine did, because I am going through something like that now. I am pushing her out because she is not putting forth the effort in college that she could be. If she is not going to take advantage of the situation that she has at home to maximize her education, then she can get some "street" smarts.

THEY WILL GROW-UP INSPITE OF THEIR PARENTS!!

As for your husband, I think that may be a different issue all together.

[moonglow]

Why is it that we are only hearing your side of the issue, and I mean, where is your Husband? Why does it seem like you are the only one dealing with this? This, as a husband and father of a 12, 14, 17, 18 and 19 year old, if find disturbing.

What ever happened to a good ol' fashioned butt whoopin. As I read your posts, I see that he talks a big game, but has not really done anything serious. Yeah, he came home late, but he came home. He stormed out, in the rain, but he came back. He has helped, but has written horrible things as well. All this points to is the teenager that is testing his limits.

CHILDREN LOVE BOUNDARIES!!! They may balk some here and there, but they are really looking for the limits so they know that somebody is paying attention. If the fence gets wider and wider by placating him, it takes longer and longer to get back to the center. If he truly wanted to leave, he would have, and if he does, let him go. A taste of the cold cruel world will make a much larger impression with him than you would think. And I also think that he is talking about leaving at 18 because you are not letting him leave now. Once he understands that he can NOT make it on his own, especially if he is given the chance, I will bet a dollar to a donut that he changes his tune real quick. I know all of mine did, because I am going through something like that now. I am pushing her out because she is not putting forth the effort in college that she could be. If she is not going to take advantage of the situation that she has at home to maximize her education, then she can get some "street" smarts.

THEY WILL GROW-UP INSPITE OF THEIR PARENTS!!

As for your husband, I think that may be a different issue all together.

I think she said her husband is gone alot for work. And trying to spank a 17 yr old that is bigger and stronger then her...I think he a bit past that. Her husband too is his step dad. Actually I tend to agree though...if my son at age 17 was acting like that, I would be very tempted to say..'there's the door'...

But its hard to truly understand the situation just by reading a few posts on a message board. She is his mother and between her and God, I am sure they will figure out what is best for him.

God bless