Osas?-moved from ETC

[Watchmen]

Hi Watchman -

I asked for a specific verse because I have been hearing for years, "No unclen thing (sometimes no unholy thing) shall enter in..." I told you I was not disputing/debating the teaching, I just wanted to know where this famous verse is that I've heard over and over again. You did answer me - there IS no verse that says exactly that. That's all I was asking - where is the verse that is continually quoted. It's like "God helps those who help themselves" and "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" - neither of those are actual verses either.

To get on with things - how does one get "clean"? How does one become "holy"?

Thanks -
V

You said That I did not give you the verse that says that no unclean will enter heaven. You must have missed it, even though I posted it and quoted it, so it has been posted twice, but I will accept that you simply didn't see it, and will post it again.
Revelation 21: 27 And nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Do you deny that this verse is what you were asking for? A verse that plainly stated no sin nor sinner will enter into Heaven/ New Jerusalem?

[My heart's Desire]

To get on with things - how does one get "clean"? How does one become "holy"?

Thanks -
V

I know, I know!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Well, especially verse 11.

[Vhayes]

Ah - it's an abbreviated version of the verse. I see. And no, I didn't see it before because it was shortened. FYI, you are the first person I've asked this who even came up with something somewhat close.

So - How does one become unclean? How does one get their name in the Book of Life?

[Watchmen]

Ah - it's an abbreviated version of the verse. I see. And no, I didn't see it before because it was shortened. FYI, you are the first person I've asked this who even came up with something somewhat close.

So - How does one become unclean? How does one get their name in the Book of Life?

The verse is not abbreviated. You become clean through the blood of Christ. however you cannot then return to the world, because if you do then you are worse off then if you had never become clean in the first place.
2nd Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happen to them according to the true proverb, the dog has turn to his own vomit and the sow that was washed to wallowing in the mire.
If they are better off never getting g clean that returning to their filth, then those that return to their filth are definitely not headed for Heaven, because you cannot be worse off on your way to heaven than on your way to Hell.

P.S. Thanks for to kudos, and the verse was not abbreviated.

[fuzzi]

Ah - it's an abbreviated version of the verse. I see. And no, I didn't see it before because it was shortened. FYI, you are the first person I've asked this who even came up with something somewhat close.

Except, technically, that verse is about New Jerusalem, not Heaven.

They are not the same, read on:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God," (Revelation 21:1,2,10)

So - How does one become unclean? How does one get their name in the Book of Life?

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Revelation 3:5)

And who is he that overcometh?

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." (1 John 4:4)

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 John 5:4,5)

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." (Revelation 2:7)

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11)

Born again believers will be there. By believing in Jesus as the Son of God, we have overcome the world. Our names will not be blotted out, and we will not be hurt of the second death, the lake of fire, which is where all unsaved people will go in the end.

Praise the Lord for His mercy toward me, a sinner!

[Partaker of Christ]

I John 1:8 is the most popular verse used for religious sinners. It can be explained in its proper context using the ENTIRE Word of God to rightly divide the word of truth.

I John 1:8 is directed unto those who have not yet received Salvation, and thus they did not believe they had the guilt of sin upon their lives, thus they didn't see the need of Christs blood to redeem them.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Obviously the individuals were not Christians, and were NOT in fellowship with the Christian writer John. He's letting them know "Hey, you guys are sinners and if you don't believe in the element of sin, you'll deceive yourself"

The Gnostics didn't believe in sin.

If you compare I John 1:8 to what John also wrote you'll find:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If Christ cleanses you from all sin, there is no more sin left over, it is ALL gone.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

One of Christs commandments was to "go and sin no more."

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Christ walked without sin, we are to walk just as he walked, without sin.

1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

True Christians have overcome [defeated] the wicked one and his temptations.

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Everyone who lives righteously is born of God. Righteousness is living free from sin.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whoever abides in Christ doesn't sin, if you do sin, you do not know God, regardless of religious profession.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

He that lives righteously is righteous just as Christ is.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Those who commit sin are of the devil, and they are a slave to sin because Christ himself said so. You cannot be a slave to sin and free from it at the same time. Christ came to destroy the works [sin] in mans heart.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those who are born of God [born again] do not commit sin.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

In this, [the sin issue], the Children of God and children of the Devil are made manifest. Those who sin are not of God, those who do not sin are of God.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Remember he commanded "go and sin no more" and his commandments are not impossible to obey. Those who truly love Christ, obey his commands.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Those who are truly saved can overcome the world [sin]

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Don't forget the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. The unrighteous are those who sin.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Whoever is born again doesn't sin.

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

We know those who are of God by their holy [sinless] life, while the rest of the world lies in wickedness [sin].

What is the pass mark FF?

How great and perfect is your walk, before you can enter eternal life

Do you claim that your present lifestyle, is greater then that of John the Baptist?

[Partaker of Christ]

always find it odd when defenders of sin use these verse to excuse their sin when these verses are surrounded by scripture that tells us if we claim Christianity yet live in sin the we do not even know the truth. Further more why did you not highlight verse 9 that clearly says we must confess our sins to have them forgiving?

1st John 1
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1st John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him
This passage of scripture clearly shows sin is unacceptable to God and those that walk in sin our not Christians even if they claim to be, yet you pull a couple of verses out of the middle of this to try to excuse your sin. Sad, you are in deep aren't you?



I never claimed to be perfect, however those that are deceiving themselve according to scriopture that is, are the ones that hear the word and do not do it.
James 1: 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves


Scripture over and over tells us we must not only talk the talk but walk the walk as well, anyone that denies this truth is simply looking for the easy way out. Sorry but there is not easy way, either we are all in serving God with all we have, or we are not serving Him at all

I ask you the same question I asked Faithfulfriend.

Your so called 'walk the walk'

Is it a greater 'walk' then that of John the Baptist's?

For the 'least' in the Kindom of Heaven, is greater then that of John the Baptist.

[Partaker of Christ]

God names off sin after sin saying it will not inherit the kingdom, does He really have to name every single sin for us to get the point. God is light and there is no darkness in Him, all darkness will be destroyed by His light. How could anyone assume sin would be allowed in His kingdom?

No sin of any kind will enter the kingdom of heaven. Not even the spot or stain of sin will enter the kingdom of heaven.

For we will all be changed into His likeness, and He will present us to the Father, without spot or stain.

Are you without even spot or stain?

[Partaker of Christ]

Watchmen is right.

Paul wrotes in Galatians 5:19-21 telling us, people who doing evil things as they practically sin life, will not enter eternal life with Christ. Gal. 5:19-21 was written to Galatia Christians, not unsaved people.

Also, in Rev. 21:8 tells us, the list names of sins, people who commit sins, will be cast away into the lake of fire.

Heaven is for all blameless saints only according 1 Cor. 1:8 & 1 Thess. 5:23 too.

'Blameless' means doing the right thing without find the fault. It tels us, that we must be blamless, means we must keep our testimony good and walk in the light daily, be watch and ready, because Christ is coming soon.

If we do not walk in the light, and do practically sin life, when Christ comes as we do not aware of, will caught us in shock and we shall be ashamed before Christ and His angels at the judgment day. That means, our sins will carry with us to everlasting punishment according James 1:15-16.

Bible commands us that we ought walk holy life, and do not do evil things.

We cannot be expecting that we can have sinless life. We all have flesh, we ought to confess our sins to God daily, no matter if we cannot remember what sin we did recently, still we ought confess sins to Christ, long as He is faithful to forgive us. Or, if we do not confess our sins to God for long time, so, He is NOT going to forgive our current sins till we confess first. OR, if we never confess our sins to God for long time till by the time we die or Lord comes, then our sins would be REMAIN unforgiven and what will happen with our sins after our death? Our sins will bring us forth to hell according James 1:15-16.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

So, your Salvation then depends on you?

God then cannot claim the Glory for your salvation (if you manage it) because you did it. It is your glory.

[Watchmen]

Except, technically, that verse is about New Jerusalem, not Heaven.

You are right, it is about New Jerusalem, not what would now be called Heaven. However the heaven that now exist is going to pass away, along with the earth that now exist, and those that inherit eternal life will live in New Jerusalem with God for all eternity. No one is going to be in what is now called Heaven once eternity comes. So your attempt to complicate the issue by separating Heaven from New Jerusalem, is just further evidence that you will not hear the truth not matter how plainly is it shown to you.

[Partaker of Christ]

RabbiKnife,

Where in the Bible states that Christ did indeed forgived all our FUTURE sins?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Are you still a debtor to the flesh?

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

The wages of sin is death, but the price has been paid, therefore we debtors are no longer to the flesh.

Do you live by the Spirit?

Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

We are then exhorted: If you then 'live' by the Spirit. let us 'also' walk by the Spirit.

[Partaker of Christ]

How does one enter eternal life if their sins are not forgiven?

There all paid for, and we who live by the Spirit, are no longer debtors to the flesh.

Now, I know that you do not believe that all our sins are paid for, but that is another problem you have.

If I understand your view. You believe you still have a debt for the flesh to be paid for. That would mean you still need Christ to die often for you, and bringing Him to shame. For that would mean His once sacrifice for all sin, is no better then the old daily sacrifice of animals.

For without the shedding of blood there can be NO remission of sins.

[CommanderRobey]

There all paid for, and we who live by the Spirit, are no longer debtors to the flesh.

Now, I know that you do not believe that all our sins are paid for, but that is another problem you have.

If I understand your view. You believe you still have a debt for the flesh to be paid for. That would mean you still need Christ to die often for you, and bringing Him to shame. For that would mean His once sacrifice for all sin, is no better then the old daily sacrifice of animals.

For without the shedding of blood there can be NO remission of sins.

Amen! It is only His blood that cleanses from all sin, and if all sin is not forgiven, then we are all in trouble.

[Butch5]

There all paid for, and we who live by the Spirit, are no longer debtors to the flesh.

Now, I know that you do not believe that all our sins are paid for, but that is another problem you have.

If I understand your view. You believe you still have a debt for the flesh to be paid for. That would mean you still need Christ to die often for you, and bringing Him to shame. For that would mean His once sacrifice for all sin, is no better then the old daily sacrifice of animals.

For without the shedding of blood there can be NO remission of sins.

Would you care to supply some Scripture that states your future sins were pre-forgiven? The apostles seem to think otherwise,


Romans 3:25-26 ( KJV )
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


2 Peter 1:8-9 ( KJV )
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Could you please post Scripture contradicting the apostles to support you position?

[CommanderRobey]

Would you care to suppl some Scripture that states your future sins were pre-forgiven? The apostles seem to think otherwise,


Romans 3:25-26 ( KJV )
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


2 Peter 1:8-9 ( KJV )
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Could you please post Scripture contradicting the apostles to support you position?

When Christ died on the cross, all our sins were future. If our future sins were not forgiven when He died, then we are all lost and His Word is good for nothing but the refuse pile.