Osas?-moved from ETC

[Vhayes]

So then one can turn away in unbelief and live in unrepentant sin for the rest of their life and they will still be saved?

Butch, I'm not saying this to be argumentative.

I believe a person can accept Christ, believe with all their heart, soul and mind, be sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption - and still fall back into the world. I also believe God will chastise that child with ever increasing discipline until that child returns. If the child crosses a line (and I have no idea what that line is) I believe God will take them out of this world rather than have them bring shame on the name of Christ.

That's what I believe based on about a 10 month study of the epistle to the Hebrews.

V

[Veretax]

This is the truth of the subject. OSAS teaches that once you ''get saved'' the you are eternally secure even if you continue to commit unrepentant chronic sin, living in rebellion to God and His word, walking the wide path that leads to destruction. It is absurd that it is accepted as a plausable belief in any church.

I find it absurd to believe that It was impossible to be saved by the Law (as we learn from this passage in romans)


Romans 3:19-28 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all F15 who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Why then is it impossible to be saved by works of the law before faith, and yet its possible to lose salvation by not doing works of the law after. That to me is the absurdity of NOSAS. Sin does not enter the equation here. Because sin was made manifest by the law.

[grit]

I'm new to this, but I'm confused! I've read alot of threads and alot of you talk about OSAS? What is that or what does that stand for?

Welcome, c7, to our little community, where we love the Bible but often disagree on just we find there.

As you can see in this thread too, we don't even always agree on what is meant by OSAS apart from some manner of fleshing it out as "Once Saved, Always Saved". Some find great similarity between OSAS, "eternal security", preservation of the saints, perseverance of the saints, and some find radical differences between these. Some present OSAS in a very negative sense of allowing a so-called Christian to do whatever evil he wants after some so-called 'salvation' event in his life, while others interpret OSAS in definitions where salvation means salvation in a permanent sense, rather than a temporary rescue. It pretty much depends on who you're talking with and in what context as to which of these is meant or emphasized. The prevailing wind of present Christian theology tends to align OSAS with its most negative aspects, in a pejorative sense, attacking any semblance of a lax Christian lifestyle. I'm one of those who sees in it a reassurance that God will never ever leave me (Heb. 13:5, Deut. 31:6-8). I believe in both Matthew 13:19 AND John 10:27-29.

I think it safe to say that most all of us are on board with God being almighty, with salvation and grace being of God, with God being sovereign on His own throne over all His creation rather than man, and with the blood of Christ Jesus being eternally efficacious and powerful to save. And I'd have to reiterate than none of the early leaders of the Christian church taught against this. While it's certainly true that they didn't label this as OSAS, it roughly took much of the Church's early energies to hash out details of just who God and Jesus were and to establish the Scriptures they were going to authoritatively use as a rule for any Christian doctrine. While God's ability to eternally save was never in doubt, much of the minutia of salvation was a little lower on their list of priorities. They all taught that salvation was from God and that Christians ought to live a holy life.

As you've noticed, there are plenty of threads here about OSAS, and more sure to follow. There's plenty written elsewhere on various Christian views of the matter as well. I'm not a Baptist, but I think Jack Hughes of Calvary Baptist Church has some interesting reading on the believer's eternal secuity under God's sovereignty.

[JWayne]

Salvation is BELIEVING in Jesus Christ

Salvation is trusting or believing in, by faith, that Jesus Christ paid for your sins with His blood on the cross of Calvary.

"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ." John 3:36

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

We are NOT saved by WORKS

The Bible makes it clear that OUR WORKS has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation.
We don't receive it by our works — and we don't keep it by our works!

" NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,. . ." Titus 3:5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9


Salvation is a FREE GIFT

Salvation is the free gift of God. If we had to work to keep it — it would not be a free gift — and God would be a liar!

". . . the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

". . .by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18

Salvation is a NEW BIRTH.

Salvation is not enduring or a process, but an event in time. Salvation is a NEW BIRTH. Just as your first birth happened on a certain time and day, so does the second birth.

"(For he saith, I have heard thee in a TIME accepted, and in THE DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted TIME; behold, now is THE DAY OF SALVATION.)" 2 Corinthians 6:2

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

"Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23

You become a CHILD OF GOD

Once you are born again SPIRITUALLY — you become a child of God.

"Beloved, NOW are we the SONS OF GOD, . . ." 1 John 3:2

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, FATHER." Romans 8:15

Nothing can SEPARATE us from our Father

Just as nothing can "negate" your physical birth, nothing can "negate" your spiritual birth.

My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually — God becomes your Father — nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken!

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29

Jesus will NEVER leave us

Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.

". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

We already HAVE eternal life

When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.) — SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.

"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:24

Jesus will NOT cast you out

". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37
We are COMPLETE in Jesus Christ

"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:" Colossians 2:10

We are PERFECTED FOR EVER

We are "perfected for ever" by Jesus Christ. How could the Lord say such a bold statement if we had to earn or keep our salvation?

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. . . For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOR EVER them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:10,14

We are PRESERVED in Christ Jesus

"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED IN JESUS CHRIST, and called:" Jude 1

"And THE LORD. . . WILL PRESERVE ME unto his heavenly kingdom:. . ." 2 Timothy 4:18

We are KEPT by the POWER of God

"Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5

"Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," Jude 24

We are saved to the UTTERMOST

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the UTTERMOST that come unto God by him,. . ." Hebrews 7:25

We are SEALED until the day of redemption

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30

". . .after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13

What about the BACKSLIDER?

What about the "backslider" or somebody that forsakes the Lord? The Bible says he will suffer loss (rewards, etc.) — but he himself shall be saved!

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

We become the BODY OF CHRIST

"For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30

"Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular." 1 Corinthians 12:18

What if we later — BELIEVE NOT?

Our salvation is so secure — even if we BELIEVE NOT after we're saved, because we become part of Him (the body of Christ), ". . .yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF."

"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13

But what if I sin an awful sin?

1 Corinthians 5 reports of an awful sin in the church. And even though Paul commands ". . . To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" — Paul still speaks of that person being saved — ". . .that the spirit MAY BE SAVED. . ."

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5


To lose your salvation — makes God a LIAR

With all the PROMISES from God to KEEP you, to SAVE you, to PRESERVE you — to even suggest you could lose your salvation — is to call God a LIAR!

". . .he that BELIEVETH NOT GOD hath made him a LIAR; . . ." 1 John 5:10

[Butch5]

Butch, I'm not saying this to be argumentative.

I believe a person can accept Christ, believe with all their heart, soul and mind, be sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption - and still fall back into the world. I also believe God will chastise that child with ever increasing discipline until that child returns. If the child crosses a line (and I have no idea what that line is) I believe God will take them out of this world rather than have them bring shame on the name of Christ.

That's what I believe based on about a 10 month study of the epistle to the Hebrews.

V

Well, the number of Scriptures that speak of or warn against falling away are so numerous I don't know how anyone can think OSAS can be true. Here is another that was brought to my attention,


2 Chronicles 15:2 ( KJV )
And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Does it get any clearer than that? That's the same thing Paul said,


2 Timothy 2:11-13 ( KJV )
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

[Partaker of Christ]

Well, the number of Scriptures that speak of or warn against falling away are so numerous I don't know how anyone can think OSAS can be true. Here is another that was brought to my attention,


2 Chronicles 15:2 ( KJV )
And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Does it get any clearer than that? That's the same thing Paul said,


2 Timothy 2:11-13 ( KJV )
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Are you dead with Him?
If so you will live with Him.

If denying Him, means that we will not live with Him, then it is not a faithful saying

So, in 'truth' denying Him, does not cancel out living with Him (if we have died with Him)

Then what does it mean (if you are willing to see it)

If we 'suffer' we will also reign with Him, if we deny Him (refuse to suffer) then He will deny us (not reign with Him)

Many will live with Him, but not all who live with Him, will reign with Him.

[Butch5]

Are you dead with Him?
If so you will live with Him.

If denying Him, means that we will not live with Him, then it is not a faithful saying

So, in 'truth' denying Him, does not cancel out living with Him (if we have died with Him)

Then what does it mean (if you are willing to see it)

If we 'suffer' we will also reign with Him, if we deny Him (refuse to suffer) then He will deny us (not reign with Him)

Many will live with Him, but not all who live with Him, will reign with Him.

If we deny Him, He will deny us. That is pretty simple, there really is no need to go to such lengths to explain it away.

I notice you did not touch the passage from 2 Chronicles.

[Gendo]

I am encouraged everyday when I read about the great heroes of faith in the Bible that failed our Lord and Savior but our Lord never failed or forgot about them. Remember Peter denied Jesus three times. When Paul talks about if we deny him He will deny us I feel he is talking about the person who hears the message of Jesus but decides to ignore it and never put faith in him for salvation. It is better to be a follower that sometimes fails than one that fails to follow

[Watchmen]

I find it absurd to believe that It was impossible to be saved by the Law (as we learn from this passage in romans)


Romans 3:19-28 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all F15 who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Why then is it impossible to be saved by works of the law before faith, and yet its possible to lose salvation by not doing works of the law after. That to me is the absurdity of NOSAS. Sin does not enter the equation here. Because sin was made manifest by the law.

Scripture tells us those that continue in sin after being ''saved'' are worse off than those that were never saved at all.
Hebrews 4
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



2nd Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


How can you be better off having never been saved and on your way to Hell if you are OSAS and still on your way to Heaven. Now that is absurd.

[My heart's Desire]

2 Chronicles about Asa is indeed an interesting situation. But if we've read the O.T we know that true to God's promises to Israel and Judah they were to do His commandments, follow His Laws etc and if they did this and relied on Him, then battles were won and if they did not battles were lost. We noticed several things about this passage.
Asa did what was good and right in the eyes of the Lord his God.
We also know that Judah had been in Idolatry b/c Asa took away the altars of the strange gods and brake the images and cut down groves.
He commanded Judah to seek the LORD God of their fathers, and to do the Law and the commandment. When they did this the Lord gave them rest from war.
We are told that even though the high places were not taken away out of Israel, the heart of Asa was perfect all his days.
But a change in war came when Asa depended on the king of Syria (man) and didn't rely on the Lord and it was then that the host of Syria escaped out of his hand.
The result is chapter 16:9
Because even though his heart was perfect, he had been foolish by not relying on the Lord and the result of that was from there on out he would have wars. Asa also relied on physicians instead of on the Lord when he became diseased and he died.
As we know this commonly happened. When Kings kept the Law and the commandments and taught the people to do so then God was with them in battles, if they did not then God was not. Israel was under the Law and the Commandments.
Does this really prove loss of salvation after salvation is complete?
We know that after Christ died, was buried and rose again that something different happened. We know we are no longer under Law. If Christ didn't make something different happen then the story in Chronicles would only prove that we are in no better shape after Christ than they were then when they were required to obey the Law and keep the Commandments, in order for the Lord to bless them, wouldn't you think? If so, then we would be required also to obey the Law and keep the commandments in order to be saved and remain saved. And if that were so, what difference did Christ make between then and now?

[My heart's Desire]

Scripture tells us those that continue in sin after being ''saved'' are worse off than those that were never saved at all.
Hebrews 4
they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,

Firstly, this is speaking of when Israel did not enter into the promised Land and why they didn't is because they didn't believe God.
It's all about unbelief. If people know about Christ and know about His sacrifice and yet choose to not believe Him then they have not entered His rest. Having a heart of unbelief is the sin for which there is no more sacrifice.
Those who believe have entered rest and no longer sin willfully for they've already obeyed the truth by believing.

[Veretax]

Scripture tells us those that continue in sin after being ''saved'' are worse off than those that were never saved at all.
Hebrews 4
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



2nd Peter 2
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


How can you be better off having never been saved and on your way to Hell if you are OSAS and still on your way to Heaven. Now that is absurd.

The first passage is speaking particularly about the spiritual state of Israel after the scouting of the Promised Land, in that they did not heed God, and because of that they wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

As for the second, of course there is no more sacrifice for sins, Christ died once for all sins past, present and future. That's the point. The sin here in question would be leaving Christ, leaving him as in denying him after once accepting him. Frankly, I find it hard to fathom that any true Christian would ever willingly turn back to their former state of being, but ultimately such is not a matter of the law, it is a matter of whether or not you believe what the bible says about Christ.

What this passage tells me is that those that turn from Christ, and this turning is not just an average every day sin, but would have to be a Willful turning against Christ, that such a person has no hope. there is no longer the levitical sacrifices, Christ died for the Sins of old.

However, if you follow these verses to their end you will find the following passage:

Heb 10:35-39 (NKJV)

35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,

And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith;

But if anyone draws back,

My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Hebrews 10:35-39 (NKJV)

Interesting, Paul is talking about being confident. The nature of being able to lose your salvation is the exact opposite of having Confidence in your confession, in your belief. He then adds that we (Christians) are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

I don't believe it is truly possible for someone to come to faith in Christ and then turn and fall away, I do believe it is possible for some to fool themselves or those around them though.



Before you even get to that passage in 2 Peter he wrote the following:


2 Pe 2:1-2 (NKJV)

Destructive Doctrines

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

2 Peter 2:1-2 (NKJV)


Peter is warning them about false teachers, people who will be so destructive as to even deny the Lord who bought them. Notice this is past tense. Is this purchase completed or to be completed?


He then gives encouragement (4-11) that the Lord knows how to deliver them from temptation, which in effect he is telling them don't lean on your own abilities, but trust in God and he will lead you out of them. The entire text here in verse 20 is talking about the False Teachers, and what will happen to them.

The truth is the devil will try to use a bit of truth mixed with lie to lead people astray, as he tried to do with Christ himself in the wilderness so is the method of these false teachers. They thus know or have knowledge of Christ, but as we should all know by now, knowledge does not equal faith. Knowledge is of the head, belief is of the heart. He even goes to describe their folly, as a dog returning to its own vomit.

This is the end for the false teacher, they will fall away and turn back to their wicked way before they came upon some morsel of the Knowledge of Christ. They were never saved, they never had faith, because if they had faith, they would put their trust not in their own understanding, but upon God's word, and what he says within it.

The Entire point and focus of Peter's 2nd Epistle is to stand fast even in the face of proclaimed teachers who though they carry this title, do not espouse the true faith.

[Partaker of Christ]

If we deny Him, He will deny us. That is pretty simple, there really is no need to go to such lengths to explain it away.

I notice you did not touch the passage from 2 Chronicles.

Just as simple is:

If we died with Him, we shall live with.

Is that a faithful [sure, true] saying or not?

As for 2 Chronicles, I though you always preached about the importance of context?

[Watchmen]

We are not saved until we have endured until the end. It is not about starting the race it is about finishing. There is not guarantee in the Bible that everyone who starts will finish it.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 3: 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Only those that complete the race are guaranteed salvation, not everyone who starts it.


OSAS/free grace is a deception.

[JWayne]

We are not saved until we have endured until the end.

I can not phamton the thought of such a statement. How could anyone have faith in God if we never knew where we stood?

Christ died on the cross for my sins, past, present and future, and I am His now and forever and there is nothing that can ever change that fact.

Salvation is NOT a deception. The only deception is in the human mind that does not fully trust in the Lord, and believe that Christ died so that we may have eternal life.