Osas?-moved from ETC

**Tomlane** · May 13th 2009, 11:07 PM

Watchman you are giving a lot of view with no scripture to back you up. I would suggest if you want to prove these believers wrong such as Vertax and partaker of Christ you need to prove yourself with scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Tomlane

**Butch5** · May 13th 2009, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ

Jesus is speaking of false prophets, who are ravening wolves in sheep's clothing.

When they met the Lord, they made boast of their 'good' works.
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power of God.

Jesus also says that you cannot have good fruit from a bad tree, but you shall know them by their fruit (not their works)

What do you think their fruits are????????????

**Butch5** · May 13th 2009, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by CommanderRobey

Paul found himself sinning constantly even after he was saved.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

And yet, he never lost his Salvation. He kept the faith, he finished the course.

One is not sinlessly perfect upon Salvation and will not be sinlessly perfect as long as on is in the weak flesh.

You may want to rethink your theology, Watchman

Why then did Jesus say go and sin no more?

**Butch5** · May 13th 2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ

I am afraid you make your will to be your god.
Who is Lord? Watchmen or God?

Jesus Christ is BOTH Saviour AND Lord.
If you receive Christ as Saviour, then you receive Him as Lord.

The Lordship of Jesus Christ, is not some optional extra. If He is not Lord of your life, then He is not Saviour of your life. You receive fully Jesus Christ as He is (the Way, the Truth, the Life, the Light, the Saviour and the Lord), or you don't receive Him at all.

Do you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ IS Lord?
Is He Lord, or are you lord?

This means you (your sovereign free will) is no longer lord. You are no longer your own, for you have been bought with a price. Your body and spirit now belong to God.
You are no longer your own, means that you once were your own, but no longer are.
You are now under new ownership and under new management.

Throughout the scripture, it speaks of how man has to obey God's will, because God is God.
I find nothing in the scripture that say's God has to do mans will. If God were to do your will, then you would be His god.

You are never saved because of your own will, but because of His will. It is His will that you are saved, and you surrender your will, to do His will and obey the gospel of grace through faith.

Can I asssume that you no longer sin? Since Christ is Lord, do you never do you own will, but always do His? If your answer is no, then Watchman has made his point.

**Butch5** · May 13th 2009, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ

Paul says 'if YOU' continue in the faith.
Why didn't he say 'If WE' continue in the faith?

Because Paul had show fruit, and the Colossians (and many of the other Churches) were still young in the Lord. There was no fruit evidence, that they had truly receive the word and understood it.

You don't just put a seed in the ground, and immediately bare fruit. The seed needs good ground, and then it can take root. Then when it is grounded and rooted, it will grow and eventually bare fruit.

Until we see the fruit, we don't know what seed it is (wheat or tare), and if it has taken any root.

You shall know them by their fruit. So until there is visible fruit as evidence, we should not be presumptuous.

Where is your Scriptural support, for your statement that there was no fruit?

Also, does the one planting not know what he has planted?

**JWayne** · May 14th 2009, 12:11 AM

No there both the same and so is what you false preach. Amazing how I told you way back that we needed to agree to disagree, and move on but you were so dead set on
further making things worse.

**JWayne** · May 14th 2009, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Veretax

Watchman, I think you are treading on thin ice here. You beleive your view of scripture is the truth, but as we attest to some disagree with your view. I'd urge everyone to be cautious as this thread is coming close to being a tit for tat kind of thing, and that is certainly not edifying to the body of Christ.

I truly believe that watchman revels in causing discord. And for one who claims that he is not a sinner and is Jesus, there is something seriously wrong. I think maybe that would be blasphmeous heracy.

Partaker of Christ · May 14th 2009, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Butch5

Can I asssume that you no longer sin? Since Christ is Lord, do you never do you own will, but always do His? If your answer is no, then Watchman has made his point.

Do you ever have the Lords permission to sin?

Does the Lord say "thou shalt not", or does the Lord say 'hey Butch, it is your free will choice, and I will not force my will upon you'?

Tell us Butch, Who is Lord of your life?

**Butch5** · May 14th 2009, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ

Do you ever have the Lords permission to sin?

Does the Lord say "thou shalt not", or does the Lord say 'hey Butch, it is your free will choice, and I will not force my will upon you'?

Tell us Butch, Who is Lord of your life?

You didn't answer the question, do you sin??? IF you do, then you disobey the Lord. The one who turns away disobeys the Lord. If you can sin when Christ is your Lord, so can the one who turns away.

Partaker of Christ · May 14th 2009, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Butch5

Where is your Scriptural support, for your statement that there was no fruit?

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Also, does the one planting not know what he has planted?

Col 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;

***Walstib*** · May 14th 2009, 12:39 AM

Not quite the 12th page but I thought I would get head start and start taking requests for the intermission.

That and if we are to go on with this thread it would be great to concentrate on the topics instead of each other. Maybe get a bit more in depth than whats found in starting new questions every two posts.

No more posts with heart judging intent. Please.

Partaker of Christ · May 14th 2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Butch5

You didn't answer the question, do you sin??? IF you do, then you disobey the Lord. The one who turns away disobeys the Lord. If you can sin when Christ is your Lord, so can the one who turns away.

Yes there are times that I sin, but I don't have the Lord's permission to sin. If I do sin then I confess that sin to the Lord, and He then forgives.

Why would I confess my sin to Him, if I was still lord of my life?

Now, back to my questions to you:

Do you ever have the Lords permission to sin?

Does the Lord say "thou shalt not", or does the Lord say 'hey Butch, it is your free will choice, and I will not force my will upon you'?

Tell us Butch, Who is Lord of your life?

**Watchmen** · May 14th 2009, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Tomlane

Watchman you are giving a lot of view with no scripture to back you up. I would suggest if you want to prove these believers wrong such as Vertax and partaker of Christ you need to prove yourself with scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 *Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Tomlane

You must not have read through this thread I have given no less than 15 passages of scripture. How much scripture is needed to prove the truth?

***fuzzi*** · May 14th 2009, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Watchmen

You must not have read through this thread I have given no less than 15 passages of scripture. How much scripture is needed to prove the truth?

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (1 Peter 3:15)

**Watchmen** · May 14th 2009, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by JWayne

I truly believe that watchman revels in causing discord. And for one who claims that he is not a sinner and is Jesus, there is something seriously wrong. I think maybe that would be blasphmeous heracy.

My goal is to open the eyes of the blind. It seems to me by the fact that you are the one slinging insults that it is you and not I that is attempting to sow discord.