Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

[Walstib]

AK,

I am chewing over what you said. Don't necessarily agree yet but chewing on it.

2) How do you think your Jewish neighbors would respond to you not thinking they're chosen or that they're not protected by God? Coming from a Jew, too often I've heard this argument in the middle of hate speech.

I will comment on this now though.

I am not sure but I think most of them would not care at all but avoid the conversation. Most of them have no desire to speak of anything spiritual. Out of about seven families there is part of one that actually practices Judaism. The closest one is big in the Taoist stuff. Super liberal most of them. Good chance most of them would have been stoned to death years ago if we were living in OT times.... but I digress.

First I never said that any of this blessing and cursing stuff had any relationship to if they were/are chosen for a specific purpose. If you see it intimately connected I can understand but I think the chosen aspect can stand alone without your interpretation of the verse in question. As for the protection part I am a bit in the dark for what context you have here. Can't really comment.

With that said I am not quite sure what argument you mean. If the Jews can be chosen and protected without a need for reciprocal blessing and cursing I don't see what you are saying. That and I can testify to you I don't hate anybody. Take that for what it is worth.

In Peace,
Joe

[Walstib]

Good chance most of them would have been stoned to death years ago if we were living in OT times....

I was thinking this could sound a little harsh. A poor attempt at humor knowing the sensitivity there is on anti-semitism type topics.

That and in OT times the scriptures would show that countless individuals and the nation as a whole followed after other gods and were not killed for it. King Josiah's time when the Book of the Law was found after years of it being dusty and forgotten an example.

So that quoted comment makes little sense anyway.

[pinky]

For those who see Gen 12:3 as speaking of both Christ and Jews I have a question...

If a person curses Jesus, but blesses Jews............is that person blessed?

[pinky]

Can a person curse Christ and still be blessed? Even if they bless Jews?

Is that really what this verse is saying.......or have we been lied to about the true context of this verse?

[Emanate]

Can a person curse Christ and still be blessed? Even if they bless Jews?

Is that really what this verse is saying.......or have we been lied to about the true context of this verse?

I am not sure you are making a valid point, but who is the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise? Hint: it does not exclude the Children of Israel, but it does add Gentiles.

I do not recall that verse saying anything about cursing Messiah.

[David Taylor]

I am not sure you are making a valid point, but who is the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise? Hint: it does not exclude the Children of Israel, but it does add Gentiles.

The seed of Abraham is neither the Children of Israel, nor the Gentiles.

(That doesn't leave many left for it to be does it....)

The seed "is not seeds as in many, but seed as in one"....Jesus Christ Himself is the seed of Abraham that through whom all nations of the Earth would be blessed.

[pinky]

I am not sure you are making a valid point, but who is the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise? Hint: it does not exclude the Children of Israel, but it does add Gentiles.

Those who believe in Jesus the Messiah foretold by the prophets.

I do not recall that verse saying anything about cursing Messiah.

My question is asked in context of the OP which was followed by some comments that say this verse is speaking of both Christ and Jews.

Paul says Gen 12:3 is speaking of Jesus and the Gospel.

[pinky]

The seed "is not seeds as in many, but seed as in one"....Jesus Christ Himself is the seed of Abraham that through whom all nations of the Earth would be blessed.

Yes, the 'Holy Seed' promised unto Abraham is the same Holy Seed that was promised unto Adam through Seth to Noah, to Shem, to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David.

The 'Promised Seed' to all the patriarchs is the MESSIAH that would redeem the world.

God bless in Christ,
pinky

[Emanate]

The seed of Abraham is neither the Children of Israel, nor the Gentiles.

(That doesn't leave many left for it to be does it....)

The seed "is not seeds as in many, but seed as in one"....Jesus Christ Himself is the seed of Abraham that through whom all nations of the Earth would be blessed.

John 8:37
I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 Corinthians 11:22
Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The seed mentioned in 3:16 and Genesis 12:3 is indeed that of Messiah. The blessing and curse mentioned in Genesis 12:3 is one that applies to Abraham, not his seed (as I read it). However, that does not nullify the promises made to the seed (plural) of Abraham mentioned elsewhere.

Genesis 28:4
And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.

[Emanate]

Those who believe in Jesus the Messiah foretold by the prophets.



My question is asked in context of the OP which was followed by some comments that say this verse is speaking of both Christ and Jews.

Paul says Gen 12:3 is speaking of Jesus and the Gospel.

See, thats what happens when I jump in the middle.

[pinky]

See, thats what happens when I jump in the middle.

I still have to grill ya with a question though...

Who is Abraham's 'SEED' that will/has blessed the nations?

God bless,
pinky

[Emanate]

I still have to grill ya with a question though...

Who is Abraham's 'SEED' that will/has blessed the nations?

God bless,
pinky

I answered previously, scroll up a tad

[John146]

I answered previously, scroll up a tad

And your answer is that the seed of Abraham that has blessed the nations are his natural descendants, specifically the nation of Israel, correct? I believe that is the wrong answer. What did Paul say regarding this?

Galatians 3
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


According to Paul, the seed of Abraham by which the nations have been blessed is Christ and those who have faith like Abraham and belong to Christ and have faith in Him.

[Emanate]

And your answer is that the seed of Abraham that has blessed the nations are his natural descendants, specifically the nation of Israel, correct?

Well, if what I said has any bearing on what I said, then I said (and I quote) "The seed mentioned in 3:16 and Genesis 12:3 is indeed that of Messiah. The blessing and curse mentioned in Genesis 12:3 is one that applies to Abraham, not his seed (as I read it). However, that does not nullify the promises made to the seed (plural) of Abraham mentioned elsewhere."